POST UPDATED ON 29TH JUN 2017
There are large number of articles on the subject in this post . please read to the end.. We thank the authors for contributing articles and their view points.
WOMEN IN INDIAN ARMY (COMBAT ARMS)
Maj Gen P K Mallick, VSM(Retd)
For number of years I had been sending e-mails on matters of military interest to many officers in my mailing list. I have not been publishing them as papers because free and frank opinion cannot be given in military journals for obvious reasons, Role of Woman in Army has been covered number of times by me. (CONTD - CLICK BELOW, Kindly do give us your views on the subject under comments at the bottom of this page, Some of the reactions from officers have also been appended at the bottom of this post) ------>>
The issue is contentious. Opinion is divided in black and white. I fall in gray variety. Both black and white opinion have genuine reasons. I don't want to go into those.
I have trained Young Officers of Corps of Signals in YO's Course which had number of lady officers. I have commanded unit which had lady officers. In higher ranks also one had to deal with issues relating to lady officers. With all humility I want to put forward the following issues.
There are good officers, there are bad officers. There are good lady officers as well as bad lady officers just as the gentlemen officers.
We must keep our own Indian conditions into account. All most all our combat arms units are based on caste. They bring their own mindsets of the village clan. For keeping the cohesion of the unit intact nobody fiddles with that. It is encouraged in unit and sub unit level. What effect this have in our men folk, has there been a study on that.
Everybody quotes Western statistics. They have problems about manpower. Nobody wants to join army. Even today USA is seriously thinking of conscription to get good quality intake. We are not the army of West. There a very large number of armies which do not have women in combat arms. For very valid reasons. When did the European Armies fought wars or CI Ops after Second World War. That is why in Sweden and Norway men and women share the same room as combat soldiers. Well they will behave like 12 year old kids! Progressives will say what is wrong in that. Make your choice.
In our case after a lady officer gets married and has kids she has very little utility to the unit. Most of the blame lies with us. In civil whether a lady is employed as school teacher or clerk or anything after child birth and maternity leave she performs as usual. No problem. In army we have been brought up in ladies first culture. We tend to get involved in domestic help, feeding of kids etc. That is not a bad thing per se. But unit suffers. In AMC it does not happen.
Unit cohesion is a big casualty. For understandable concerns 2IC will not like to detail lady officers for duty officer/ temporary duties where one has to move on short notice without reservations etc. The other officers get their undue share which they resent. Again there should not be any discrimination on duties, does not happen on ground.
Before taking a decision please ask Commanding Officers of units who have lady officers. Also ask Officers of MS Branch controlling those arms and services who have lady officers.
In operations and exercises very little attention is paid to personal comforts. There is nothing more soldierly than going out in the morning with a bottle in hand. Please don't get Swach Bharat into this. One has to understand the conditions where we operate. Additional administrative burden is an issue which we can do without.
We exist to fight a war and win it. Not for peace time soldiering. In rain, mud, high altitude, assaulting a hill feature under intense enemy fire will you like to have somebody who is not physically upto the mark, whose battle loads you have to share and be extra protective to her so that she does not become POW.
Basic building block of Indian Army is the units. Nothing should be done so that unit cohesion gets adversely affected. The day it happens doomsday would not be far behind.
What is the hurry. Everything has its own time. The ladies of Switzerland, one of the most advanced countries in the world, got voting rights in 70s. Our ladies got this right from day one of our republic. The US Marines had argued that women should be barred from the corps' ranks of infantry, machine-gunners and fire-support reconnaissance units. It is only in December 2015 the US Secretary of Defence Ash Carter ruled that women will be allowed to serve in all combat jobs in the U.S. military overruling the recommendations of USMC Chief, later Chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff.
So far we were talking about officers. Now women in other ranks. Army has very well established methods of arriving at major decisions. I wonder whether some major studies have been conducted, feedback obtained and an informed decision has been taken on getting women in rank and file. You want to know how this kind of studies are done ? Please click on https://ssi.armywarcollege.
In 2012 the U.S. Marine Corps temporarily opened its Infantry Training Battalion (ITB) and Infantry Officer Course (IOC) to female volunteers. At the end of the Marine Corps experiment, 29 female officers had attempted the course but none had graduated. The Marine Corps reported that 98% of the women dropped from the IOC were due to physical performance failures and one woman dropped due to injury. The pass rate for women in the enlisted Marine Corps Infantry Training Battalion (ITB), which is regarded as a less strenuous course than the IOC, had been 35.9% over the testing period compared with a 98% pass rate for males entering the course.
I recommend policy makers to read CRS Report on Women in Combat: Issues for Congress, December 13, 2016 available at: https://fas.org/sgp/crs/
In a 2014 speech to veterans of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, Gen Mad Dog Mattis, the present Defence Secy of USA said he was opposed to opening some of the military's most demanding combat jobs to women not because he doesn't believe they are qualified, but because he doesn't believe in mixing love and close-quarters combat.
"The idea of putting women in there is not setting them up for success," Mattis said at the time. "Could we find a woman who can run fast enough? Of course we could. Could you find a few who could do the pullups? Of course you could. That is not the point. That is not the point at all. It is whether or not you want to mix Eros.
"Do you really want to mix love, affection, whatever you call it, in a unit where you, as a 20-year-old squad leader, can point at someone else and point forward knowing full well you've now introduced all the affections and the testosterone and the love and everything else that goes into young people?" he continued. "I think it would only be someone who's never crossed a line of departure into close-counters fighting that would ever even promote such an idea." You may like to click https://www.youtube.com/watch?
In July 2015, US Govt Accounting Office reported that the Office of the Secretary of Defense and the military departments had conducted 41 studies as part of their women in the services reviews. The issue areas studied included:
Ø Unit cohesion
Ø Women's health
Ø Equipment, gear, and uniforms
Ø Facilities modification
Ø Interest in serving in combat roles (propensity)
Ø International issues
U.S. Government Accountability Office, DOD Is Expanding Combat Service Opportunities for Women, but Should Monitor Long-Term Integration Progress, GAO-15-589, July 2015 ]
I hope these kind of studies have been done!
There are lot of holy cows in our cupboards. For very valid and understandable reasons they are not taken out in the open and discussed threadbare because that will adversely affect the very basic building blocks of our army. Our combat arms units, mostly are based on caste, religion, location etc. In 21st century? Caste based regressive system? But when an infantry jawan charges an enemy bunker with fixed bayonet knowing fully well he may or may not survive the assault, he does not do that for Bharat Mata, he does this for paltan ka izzat. His war cries are different based on religious deity or clan they belong to etc. It is for this paltan ka izzat that we still have those caste based systems of recruitment which are not tinkered with. Well you can give examples of mixed class units but they are few in number. If you wanted to change this slowly this could have been done, that has not happened.
Most of our men come from Punjab, Haryana, HP, Uttarakhand, Rajasthan, Western UP. Disproportionately. Constitutionally we are duty bound to recruit proportionately from male recruitable population from all states. We have regiments which compose of say 100% Brahmin Thakurs. We have to change, then a process has to be in place so that change happens gradually without any major commotion. Do we have any system in place.
Are you willing to look at recruiting Gorkhas from Nepal. As Field Marshal Slim says there is no good or bad regiment. There is only good or bad officers. We have heard enough of good will, let's talk about return of investment. Slowly we can replace Gorkha units from Nepal with Indian units. If you ask any Gorkha from Nepal which army he will join British or Indian, you know what will be the answer. Our senior officers from Gorkha Regiments will like their units to go to UN Missions, understandable. But the money which the unit gets will go to Nepal and not to some Indian villages. We are a big country, ki farak painda syndrome will prevail. We have our officers who go to the remote locations of Nepal to distribute pay to ESMs. What about doing the same to remote locations of Kumaon, Garhwal, Himachal or North East.
There are other issues also.
The decision has already been taken. It is dusted and done. For a long time I have been writing Indian Army has to get out of All izz well syndrome, not taking any decisions for any major reforms. That is when in today's world the vested interested media, the ill informed politicians and wily bureaucrats will take decisions, good bad or ugly and put those down the throat of army. We will have no recourse but lump it like a thick lump of shit and say they are the political masters. Do we require one Lt Gen Shekatkar to tell us what reform we have to do as if Indian Army does not know what is to be done.
Previous UPA Govt was hell bent on giving up Siachen. Some doves from veteran community, experts in strategic affairs, were part of that campaign. The Army for very valid reasons resisted tooth and nail. The Chief went to media. The Govt developed cold feet and Siachen was saved. But give the devil its due, the Govt did not force the army to accept their decision. Or on AFSPA. In view of stubborn resistance from Army that decision which Shri Chidambaram wanted was not taken. Today Supreme Court ruled every incident in CI ops will be investigated by the same police due to whose failure army has to come in.
One gets a feeling decisions are coming from top and we have no other way but accept it. Like lady officers marching like jawans in Rajpath. Ki pharak pahanda?
Three years back when discussing this issue via e mail, a very respected Lt Gen Baljit Singh sent me his paper. Also a paper from Marti Van Crevald both of which I had shared earlier , I am reproducing below. Some of the other articles which I shared earlier are attached. This is for academic purposes.
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WOMAN EXPOWERMENT AND COMBAT ZONE SOLDIERING
by
Lt General (Retd) Baljit Singh
A woman's femininity and vulnerability must never be compromised, not even at the alter of woman empowerment. True woman empowerment implies a societal mind-set which honours and studs guarantee against the vulnerability of a woman's person.
Unbelievable though it might sound but the protFction of a woman's honour and the life of an infant are a significant part of the unwritten creed of soldiering. This is imbibed from the very first moment when a young lad makes entry into the profession of Arms. For, he acquires a new persona which goes by the status "Gentleman Cadet" (GC). The emphasis is on the prefix "Gentleman" which implies a host of virtues, that is, honesty, integrity, upright and steadfast character, professional excellence, humility, courage. courtesy, and above all chivallry. And chivallry in the soldier's creed is all about honouring the person of a woman from any walk of life and careing for the life of infants in the course of duty.
On successful completion of training and imbibing a gentleman's virtues, the GC graduates to a "Gentleman Officer" as distinct from a "Civil Servant". In the milue of such an exacting officer corps of the Indian Armed Forces, not only will the "lady officers" be accepted as equals but in addition they will function in a protective and chivallerous environment. No country- man or woman need have any apprehensions on this count.
Gender discrimination is or aught to be anethma to a gentleman's creed. But the circumstances of soldiering and the very nature of every active battle field is unfortunately (for our lady officer) *ender indiscriminating. From my personal experience of the last ten years in the Service when I was in a position to shape policy and watch policy being shaped, it is my firm conviction that the armed forces are not gender biased. It is just that the incontrovertible nature of the active combat zone and of combat zone simulated intensive trainin2, simply does not and cannot provide the kind of creature comforts for privacy and personal hygiene so vital for the physical and emotional equipoise of the feminine gender. And it is this single factor which is and will creat mental and emotional stresses for the lady officers leading to depression, indiscipline, hyper irritability and even suicide.
There was a time when officers of the Armed forces trained for combat but superannuated from the Service without ever going into combat. They simply alternated between two years "peace" and "field" tenures. But since the 1980s the officer corps alternates between low-intensity-combat tenure and "peace" stations. Admittedly the degree of stress in the latter period is non-lethal but nevertheless it is a time of continuous and high voltage training carried out in combat zone simulated scenarios.
Perhaps I can best illustrate these invidious stress prone situations which the lady officers will find most disconcerting by taking random examples both from active combat zones and the present day combat simulated training regimen.
Brig Sir John Smyth VC, MC has this hilarious episode from WW I in his autobiography which demonstrates how awkward and therefore stress-generating an active combat zone can be for a lady officer. He was the Adjutant (capt) of the 15 Sikh, the first Indian troops to land in France in 1914. After disembarkation, 400 Sikh soldiers and eight officers marched the whole day to their destination. It was a hot day and their bodies were covered with dust and uniforms soaked in sweat. On spotting a water hose amid an excited sea of French faces. the Sikh soldiers stripped down to their home-spun cotton drawers. opened their hair and beards and set about having a good wash. The men then created a screen around the water-hose by suspending a few turbans and their officers too washed up!
Now if there were one lady officer among the eight, would she have been comfortable to bathe almost in the open ? If she abstained, what a torture to remain coated in dust and sweat may be for another 48 hours. Also, when men's drawers get soaked in bath water and soap there remains nothing hidden. Imagine the awkwardness for the lady officer to be around which may well have been required of her as part of duty. And then be seated for dinner with the other seven, spruced and clean.
Closer to our times, this is the kind of happening which was witnessed daily, for over a year. Around the tube-wells in the Punjab farm-lands where the Indian Army remained combat-deployed following attack on the Lok Sabha in 1998.
Let us take a look at a counter-insurgency simulated training in the NE. A lady officer along with a body of soldiers in battle fatigues are tasked to march through a dense tropical forest for the whole day to set up an ambush for the insurgents after dusk. At the regulation halts, a man would simply, turn his back on his comrades and just a few paces away from them, relieve himself What about the lady officer, especially where tiger leeches rejoice at the exposed human body? Besides, she my well be in the phase where she would need at least a few snatches of privacy for essential personal hygiene. If her temperament revolts at accepting the rough with the smooth for the whole day and perhaps one night as well, she is bound to be traumatised, to say the least. And repeated exposures to similar and more demanding assignments can emotionally unhinge any one.
No matter how reprehensible but the fact is that plunder and rape have been the booty of war in the history of mankind. Even as recent as WW II, the Japanese and to a lesser degree the Russian, soldiers had betrayed these traits. There is the Geneva Convention on the treatment of POWs and one can state with pride that at least the Indian Army has been its staunch adherent. But there are many Nations who are not.
The greatest threat of trauma to a lady officer in active combat arises from the eventuality of falling a POW. It is a fact that war does brutalise a soldier's or any man's psyche and he may commit the most horrid excesses. Take for instance the case of Maj Rhonda L Cannim of the US Army whose helicopter was downed in Iraq. most graphically recounted by Pritam Bhullar in his fortnightly column "Fauji Beat" in the Chandigarh Tribune of Jul 04. Maj Rhonda had fractured both arms, one knee and had a bullet in the right shoulder. Despite the pain of injuries. she was "violated manually. vaginally and rectally." Must we expose our women to such barbarity merely for attaining what some consider the ultimate in the empowerment of women?
Even when there were no lady officers in the Army, the Service did not tolerate any misdemeanor from its soldiery towards Army's women folk living in the cantonments. In the 1980s. two serving Lieut Gennerals were suspected of such traits and both were told to face a court martial or resign forthwith. Promptly. they chose the latter option.
No, the Indian Armed Forces are certainly not gender biased by keeping the combat Arms and active combat zone off-limits to its lady officers. No one segment of any society is truely perfect. Nor are our Armed Forces. But yes, our Armed Forces understand the risks involved to a woman's dignity in combat and let us hope the three Service Chiefs will stand by their well founded convictions no matter how persistent and politically motivated the demands to the contrary.
Indian women in Armed Forces uniform are as capable as their male counterparts when employed on combat support roles. For the sake of the honour of our women, let us not confuse this truth with the prevelance of male chauvinism tendencies in the Armed Forces.
Lt General Baljit Singh
House 219. Sector 16-A
Chandigarh- 160 015
Tel : 2770619
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In Jan 15 Lt Gen Randhir Singh responded by writing to me:
Gen Baljit has written well.
I was a GOC on LC during Parakram and had many lady officers serving under me.
They all acquitted themselves most creditably, even under intense shelling. Nevertheless all COs and commanders up the chain were acutely aware of their vulnerabilities. None of them complained but we all knew a line we could not make them cross.
I have another point. Why were our lady officers made to march as ORs in the Parade? A precedent has been set and I shudder as to future consequences.
We are creating an image, which we will not be able to sustain
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Martin Van Creveld: Women are a Problem in The Military, Not The Cure
Summary: Martin van Creveld examines the reason behind the Israel Defense Forces' enthusiasm to recruit women. It's the same reason for the enthusiasm of the US military. Men are increasingly unable or unwilling to serve. He discusses some of the likely consequences of this experiment.
By Martin van Creveld.
From his website, 24 November 2016.
For about twenty years now, I have been warning whoever would and would not listen about the dangers of feminizing the military. Now, in my own country, the chicks — no pun intended — are coming home to roost. As readers will know, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) are the only ones in history to have made women wear uniform even against their will. However, from the end of the War of Independence (1948) to the late 1970s they only did so in a variety of auxiliary Military Occupation Specialties (MOS) that had little impact on the fighting "teeth." At that point a shortage of manpower generated by the forces' expansion following the 1973 Arab-Israeli War on one hand and feminist pressures on the other caused the situation to change. Female officers and enlisted personnel increased in both numbers and importance until the IDF was blessed with three small "combat" battalions made up mostly of women. Albeit that they are deployed along the borders with Egypt and Jordan, where hardly a shot has been fired for decades past.
Fast-move forward. For about a month now I have noticed, in Israel's most important paper Yediot Ahronot, a series of articles about various combat IDF units. How little the public knew about them. How wonderful they were. How important the missions they carried out, and how daring their feats. Which towns provided them with proportionally the largest number of recruits. And so on. Briefly. the kind of stuff you would expect from a military that has difficulties attracting manpower.
Last week, the reasons behind the various publications came out of the bag. What I had suspected all along has now been announced with great fanfare. Year by year, fewer recruits are interested in joining the combat arms. From 2015 to 2016 alone, the figure went down by two percentage points, from 71.91 to 69.8. The decline is less pronounced among women, more among men. Coming on top of the fact that more and more men do not serve in the first place, the IDF has good reason to worry about its ability to fill combat slots as they should be.
Throwing in money apart, several solutions have been proposed. One is to cut down on the training of cadets and fresh recruits so as to free them for tasks such as holding down the Occupied Territories. Another is to dramatically lower physical standards. Should this come to pass, then soldiers previously classified as fit only for desk-bound tasks and disaster relief either in the Territories or in Israel itself will be able to serve in "combat" MOS. For example, by controlling passports and looking for contraband at the various checkpoints leading from Israel to the Palestinian territories, Egypt and Jordan.
The most radical idea of all is to have women serve in the armored corps. But don't let the slim figure, narrow shoulders, slender arms, and manicured nails of the good-looking girl in the picture mislead you. Over half of a tank's weight consist of armor, and each of the road wheels shown weighs about as much as she does. As you would expect from such a machine, operating and maintaining it — as by loading ammunition, or swabbing the barrel of the gun, or changing a link in the tracks—is very heavy, and often very dirty, work only a handful of women can do. Should a woman be included in a tank crew, then the outcome will be to increase the burden on her male comrades. Perhaps even more problematic, in the confined space of an armored vehicle privacy is not minimal — it simply does not exist.
Such a system, in other words, can only lead to one of two things or, perhaps, to both. First, there will be another increase in the number of injured, in some cases even crippled, women hobbling about. And of course in claims for compensation of the kind which, even now, amounts to fully four percent of Israel's entire defense budget. Second, there is going to be a big rise in "sexual harassment" claims; a problem which, as I pointed out in my recent book Pussycats, is currently wrecking not only Israel's armed forces but those of all other Western ones as well.
More women in the forces are not the cure. They are the disease, or at least part of it. Feminization will inevitably lead, by all signs has already led, to the creation of a vicious cycle. By definition, the more women enter any professional field, institution, or branch of service the fewer men will remain in it. The fewer men remain, the more its prestige and the economic rewards it can command will be compromised. The more its prestige and economic rewards it can command are compromised, the fewer men it will be attract.
This process has been documented many, many times. Often by female researchers who worry, with good reason, about the impact their own growing presence may have on the rewards they can expect in their chosen fields. The best-known cases are those of secretaries (once upon a time, practically all secretaries were male), bank-tellers, pharmacists, book-editors, bakers, psychologists, and "wealth managers." The ongoing decline in the ability of the humanities to attract students also seems to be linked with the fact that the percentage of female faculty members is them is exceptionally high.
And which IDF combat units do not suffer from a shortage of men? You guessed it: The two elite, entirely male, infantry brigades, Golani and the paratroopers.
Editors' note: for more about the loss of status following women's entry into a profession see "Is the Feminization of a Profession a Sign of a Loss of Prestige?" by Marlaine Cacouault-Bitaud in Work, Gender and Societies, 2001/1, and also "As Women Take Over a Male-Dominated Field, the Pay Drops" by Claire Cain Miller in the New York Times, 18 March 2016.
Whatever happened in the past, it happened for the good; Whatever is happening, is happening for the good; Whatever shall happen in the future, shall happen for the good only. Do not weep for the past, do not worry for the future, concentrate on your present life.
Maj Gen PK Mallick, VSM (Retd)
REACTIONS RECEIVED :-
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Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:28 am (PDT) . Posted by: "mmp kala" mmp_kala
I understand that women are to be inducted in the Corps of Military Police at the first instance. Will they go to field areas where the CMP posts are generally at the fringes of the Army units/ inhabited areas and at some places in desolate locations, or will they not be given such duties and will be posted in peace stations only whereby they will cause increased field tenures for the male soldiers? Will they be armed all the times so that they can shoot anyone trying to molest them? Will the Army construct separate barracks and bathrooms for them? What happens when the units are on collective training; what facilities will they be given for their privacy? Will they get additional leave during their monthly courses? And How will women soldiers bring up their nursing babies?
Dear Brig Vinayak,
We appreciate your views and agree with you without any reservations what so ever, as regards the capabilities are concerned. We too have also mentioned that there is no doubt in any body's mind about the capabilities in intellect, sincerity, dedication and professional competence of the women that they can perform better than men at times. These are duly highlighted by Maj Gen PK Mallick as well as by Lt General (Retd) Baljit Singh in their articles as above. The officers who have given comments have also stated the same.
We have accepted them in the Armed forces in the Supporting Arms and services. However inducting them into the Combat Arms (Armd, Inf & Arty) of the unit leaves every one with a big and shivering question. How can we even think of sending a female as FOO with an assaulting infantry company. We have just today published write up by Maj Gen Sudhir Vombatkere above which he has kindly shared with us. The reports by Colonel Anne Wright a woman Officer of the US Army, published in New York Times on the issue are revealing and are enough to raise any one's hair in shock. These need special consideration.
We have accepted them in the Armed forces in the Supporting Arms and services. However inducting them into the Combat Arms (Armd, Inf & Arty) of the unit leaves every one with a big and shivering question. How can we even think of sending a female as FOO with an assaulting infantry company. We have just today published write up by Maj Gen Sudhir Vombatkere above which he has kindly shared with us. The reports by Colonel Anne Wright a woman Officer of the US Army, published in New York Times on the issue are revealing and are enough to raise any one's hair in shock. These need special consideration.
Gen Sudhir Vombatkere has also given us write up of Col Hariharan which deserves serious understanding before taking any action. The battle environment, as you know, in Combat Situations is totally different. Our fears of sexual assaults on women and consequent degeneration of the fighting capabilities of the fighting units are not just unfounded. We have a structured Army based on ethnic groups, as such the environment is totally special totally different from the other Armies of the world, so called progressive nations.
Imagine if a woman is captured as PW by the enemy and the treatment which will be meted out to her by our known adversaries, even if she is wounded. It is unimaginable and shocking giving shivers down any one's spine. Let any father be apprised of the same first, and then ask him whether he will let his daughter join the Combat units.
Let the women folk understand the risks involved in their participation in Combat, they will understand that the combat arms are not for them. let the media be educated, ask these TV girls if they will accept falling into the hands of the enemy in battle situations. I am being curt and straight forward as such many may not like what I have stated, but facts are facts. As human beings we avoid discussing death similarly we also avoid even thinking of the sexual assaults on women specially in the battle conditions.
I am witness to the after cease fire programme organised by Ajanta Arts of Sunil Dutt, who came with his wife Nargis and troupe. Our formation was given the responsibility for the show at Nainakot(Pakistan) in Shakagarh sector. It was Mid Jan 1972 I think. The soldiers were seated on ground on their ground sheets and engineers had prepared a stage using duck boars. Sunil Dutt came out with his usual Josh "Sar Zamin and all that" there was big Bharat Mata ki Jai' and lots of Josh. The programme started with Desh bhagti Song by female singer, all well till now. Now came the turn of a film dancer. As she did one or two Jhatkas, there was uproar, lots of men got up and began dancing and making some gestures which you can understand. Seeing the situation going out of control, we youngsters who were assigned to these film Hastis got them out quickly and rushed them to our mess in our jeeps. Our Cdr there loaded them in three APCs and rushed them back to Dinanagar during the night with us as escorts. The nightmare was averted, and we thanked God. That was the last of any cultural programme till we moved back. The men are men and the battle situations, where death is just walking along with you any thing is possible, normal aadmi can turn into haiwan at the spur of a moment.
Let us not ignore all this in our un-called for quest to follow the so called progressive nations. They are short of manpower ad are compelled to push their women into battle. We have no such compulsions. Let us maintain our Armed Forces fully fit for War in all respects. Any dilution of any form will be a costly mistake our Nation will make.
Brig Narinder Dhand
Owner URL:: http://signals-pariwar.blogspot.in
REACTIONS RECEIVED :-
From: Lt Gen Chandra Shekhar PVSM, AVSM, Ex VCOAS , ( shekhar11837@gmail.com )
Sent: Monday, 26 June, 2017 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: Women in Armd Forces
I agree. not understood the reasons for it or its the lure of the
uniform ?
On 26 June 2017 at 11:47, Vinod Kumar <vinodkumar1936@yahoo.in> wrote:
Hello Narender,
Greetings from one of the members on your BlogMy take on increased role for women in the Armd Forces is slightly different I am stating it here-under If you find it a penny worth, please put it for others to read - & comment, if so desiredLet us enlarge the meaning & scope of the term - women in Def Forces - why must it remain confined to mere uniformed jobs? Armed Forces have several other spheres where women can be gainfully employed in any rank & capacity A few examples being: -1. MES2. ORD DEPOTS3. ORD FACTORIES4. SUPPLY DEPOTS5. EME WORKSHOPS ( Base & above)6. BORDER ROADS7. AFMSDs8. MHs (increase their numbers & role)9. APS10. Lands & Cantonments11. DRDO12. & Above all, MODWomen in all these establishments will still be serving the Country & the Nation as integral part of the Armed Forces without the baggage of improprieties that most fear, otherwiseMy best wishes & regards,Vinod Kumar
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From:
Brig Narinder Dhand
Sent: Sunday, 25 June, 2017 9:55 AM
To: undisclosed
Subject: MORE WOMEN IN THE INDIAN ARMY
ATICLE CONTRIBUTED BY OUR ESTEEMED
MEMBER
Dear General,
The Indian Army has proposed to induct women into units which have a combat
roles, and perhaps not only at officer level but also among the rank-and-file.
Many Veterans have argued cogently on our blog site http://signals-parivaar.blogspot.in
on a post by Maj Gen PK Mallick, why the same is not only unnecessary, but also
undesirable. I agree with their view points and the risk factors. Where as we
have no doubt in their capabilities and intellect, which at times may be even
better than their male colleagues, we cannot ignore the additional risk of being
too close to each others under very very special situations and places as has
been highlighted in the article referred to here in .
The US military has had many, many cases of military personnel (including very senior officers) being removed from service (or otherwise punished) for having inappropriate sexual relations with females in the military. Our army may run into very similar problems, and every CO or fmn cdrs at various levels will have to spend time, attention and energy (at the cost of training or operational efficiency) to pre-empt such problems or deal with misdemeanours when they occur, to maintain battle efficiency and morale. The article at <http://www.msn.com/en-us/news
The US military has had many, many cases of military personnel (including very senior officers) being removed from service (or otherwise punished) for having inappropriate sexual relations with females in the military. Our army may run into very similar problems, and every CO or fmn cdrs at various levels will have to spend time, attention and energy (at the cost of training or operational efficiency) to pre-empt such problems or deal with misdemeanours when they occur, to maintain battle efficiency and morale. The article at <http://www.msn.com/en-us/news
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Brigadier Narinder Dhand.
Dear Brig Dhand,
My views are frank and
usually off-beat, sometimes attracting violent disagreement or renchant criticism from the Veteran
fraternity, but also sometimes agreement.
Anyway, I am pasting BELOW,
something that would surely interest you. At the end is my view expressed in
2010 !! Please make use of the material as you may see fit.
Regards.
Maj Gen Sudhir Vombatkere
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12.02.2010
Dear Sirs / Friends,
The New Indian Express (Chennai) has been waging a campaign for Indian women officers of our Armed Forces to be posted in 'combat or operational billets', for quite sometime. Editorials have been written on the subject. A media created controversy was contrived in 2008 on an innocent statement from the then Vice Chief of Army Staff, Lt.Gen. S.Pattabiraman, on women in combat roles. There was 'fire & brimstone' in our media . Politicians got into the fray. In keeping with the media tactics of 'shoot & scoot', the matter faded away from public gaze soon thereafter. The damage done to a pan Indian institution like the Indian Army was of no consequence to our TRP crazed media. Last year, it was the turn of IAF to be in the crosshairs of the media . The occasion was the reported statement of the current Vice Chief of Air Staff on women fighter pilots. It must be highlighted here that women pilots are already flying transport aircraft and helicopters in the I.A.F. However, the media made it appear that there were NO WOMEN PILOTS IN THE I.A.F. True to its 'shoot & scoot' tactics, the media 'soon' forgot about the issue . The latest 'ire' of TNIE is the Indian Navy. Port Blair is currently hosting a 12 Nation naval Exercise, codenamed " MILAN -2010 ". The ' cry ' this time around is ' NO WOMEN AT SEA - WHY ? ' ! In pompous fashion, the paper wrote recently, "While the world around is progressing, the Indian military leaderhip seems stuck in a rut, continuing to believe that women should be kept away from operational duties". The New York Times had published recently under the subject title : " Women At Arms ", a series of articles, highlighting the problems suffered by women officers/ enlisted troops in combat zones. They make for poignant reading. Corroborating the New York Times reports, are a series of articles written by Colonel (retd) Col. Ann Wright,U.S.A. She is a retired Army Reserve colonel and a 29-year veteran of the Army and Army Reserves. She was a diplomat in Nicaragua, Grenada, Somalia, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Sierra Leone, Micronesia, Afghanistan and Mongolia. She resigned from the Department of State on March 19, 2003, in opposition to the Iraq war. She has written several articles on violence against women in the military. Here are some of them reproduced below…..
Maj Gen Sudhir Vombatkere
(A) - Sexual Assault in the Military: A DoD Cover-Up?
By Col. Ann Wright, Posted
on Aug 1, 2008
http://www.truthdig.com/report/print/20080801_sexual_assault_in_the_military_a_dod_cover_up
Sexual Assault in the Military: A DoD Cover-Up?:
Col. Ann Wright www.truthdig.com
There was quite a struggle in Congress this week
[July 27-Aug. 2]. The Department of Defense refused to allow the senior
civilian in charge of its Sexual Assault Prevention and Response Office to
testify in Thursday’s hearing on sexual assault in the military. Above,
Marine Lance Cpl. Maria Lauterbach, who reported being raped in 2007 and
whose body was found buried in a backyard in 2008. - 2008/08/01
[ " - - - . Rep. Jane Harman cited Veterans
Administration statistics that one in three women in the military has been
sexually assaulted. She said the prosecution rate of those accused of raping
fellow military service members is abysmally low. Of the 2,212 reported rapes
in the military in 2007, only 8 percent of the cases ended in court-martial
of the perpetrator, while the rate of prosecution in civilian courts is 40
percent." ]
-------------------------------------------------------------
(B) - Is
There an Army Cover Up of Rape and Murder of Women Soldiers?
by Ann Wright
Monday, April 28, 2008
[ " - - - - -. The Department of Defense
statistics are alarming one in three
women who join the US military will be sexually assaulted or raped by men in
the military. The warnings to women should begin above the doors of the
military recruiting stations, as that is where assaults on women in the
military begins -- before they are even recruited. But, now, even more
alarming, are deaths of women soldiers in Iraq, and in the United States,
following rape. The military has characterized each of the deaths of women
who were first sexually assaulted as deaths from "non-combat related
injuries," and then added "suicide." Yet, the families of the
women whom the military has declared to have committed suicide, strongly
dispute the findings and are calling for further investigations into the
deaths of their daughters. Specific US Army units and certain US military
bases in Iraq have an inordinate number of women soldiers who have died of
"non-combat related injuries," with several identified as "suicides."
" ]
--------------------------------------------------------------------
(C ) - U.S. Military Keeping Secrets About Female
Soldiers’ ‘Suicides’?
By Col. Ann Wright, Posted
on Aug 26, 2008
U.S. Military Keeping Secrets About Female Soldiers’
‘Suicides’?: Col. Ann Wright
www.truthdig.com
Since I
posted on April 28 the article “Is There an Army Cover Up of the Rape and
Murder of Women Soldiers,” the deaths of two more U.S. Army women in Iraq and
Afghanistan have been listed as suicides—the Sept. 28, 2007, death of
30-year-old Spc. Ciara Durkin and the Feb. 22, 2008, death of 25-year-old
Spc. Keisha Morgan. Both “suicides” are disputed by the families of the
women. - 2008/08/26
[ " - - - - - . According to Tina’s mother, rape
charges against the soldier whose sperm was found on Tina’s sleeping bag were
dropped a few weeks after her death. He was convicted of failure to obey an
order and sentenced to forfeiture of $714 for two months, 30 days’
restriction to the base and 45 days of extra duty.
On May 11, 2006, 10 days after Tina Priest was found
dead, 19-year-old Army Pfc. Amy Duerksen was found dead at the same Camp
Taji. Duerksen died three days after she suffered what the Army called “a
self-inflicted gunshot.” The Army claimed that she, too, had committed
suicide. In the room where her body was found, investigators reportedly
discovered her diary open to a page on which she had written about being
raped during training after unknowingly ingesting a date-rape drug. The person
Duerkson identified in her diary as the rapist was charged by the Army with
rape after her death. Many who knew her did not believe she shot herself, but
there is no evidence of a homicide investigation by the Army." ]
-------------------------------------------------------------------
[ " "My daughter's dream became a
nightmare," sadly said Gloria Barrios, seven months after her daughter,
US Air Force Senior Airman Blanca Luna, was murdered on Sheppard Air Force
Base, Texas. On March 7, 2008,
Senior Airman Luna, 27, was found dead in her room at the Sheppard Air Force
Base Inn, an on-base lodging facility. She had been stabbed in the back of
the neck with a short knife. Luna, an Air Force Reservist with four years of
prior military service in the Marine Corps including a tour in Japan, was
killed three days before she was to graduate from an Air Conditioning,
Ventilation and Heating training course." ] In addition, there are other reports like :-
US: Culture of
Unpunished Sexual Assault in Military
By Dahr Jamail, Apr 30, 2009 , http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=46674
[ " - - - - -. Women in America
were first allowed into the military during the Revolutionary War in 1775,
and their travails are as old. Maricela Guzman served in the Navy from 1998
to 2002 as a computer technician on the island of Diego Garcia, and later in
Naples, Italy. She was raped while in boot camp, but was too scared to talk
about the assault for the rest of her time in the military. In her own words
she, "survived by becoming a workaholic. Fortunately or unfortunately
the military took advantage of this, and I was much awarded as a soldier for
my work ethic." ]
The New York Times Articles referred
above can be read at :-
(A) - Women at Arms : Another Peril in War Zones:
Sexual Abuse by Fellow G.I.’s
By STEVEN LEE MYERS, Published:
December 27, 2009.
URL :
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/28/us/28women.html?pagewanted=all
[ " BAGHDAD — Capt. Margaret H.
White began a relationship with a warrant officer while both were training to
be deployed to Iraq. By the time they arrived this year at Camp Taji, north
of here, she felt what she called “creepy vibes” and tried to break it off. n
the claustrophobic confines of a combat post, it was not easy to do. He left
notes on the door to her quarters, alternately pleading and menacing. He
forced her to have sex, she said. He asked her to marry him, though he was
already married. He waited for her outside the women’s latrines or her
quarters, once for three hours. - - -." ]
(B) - Women at Arms : A
Combat Role, and Anguish, Too
By DAMIEN CAVE, Published: October
31, 2009
URL :
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/01/us/01trauma.html
[ " - - - . Never before has
this country seen so many women paralyzed by the psychological scars of
combat. As of June 2008, 19,084 female veterans of Iraq or Afghanistan had
received diagnoses of mental disorders from the Department of Veterans
Affairs, including 8,454 women with a diagnosis of post-traumatic stress —
and this number does not include troops still enlisted, or those who have
never used the V.A. system. - - -. And yet, experts and veterans say, the
circumstances of military life and the way women are received when they
return home have created differences in how they cope. A man, for instance,
may come home and drink to oblivion with his war buddies while a woman —
often after having been the only woman in her unit — is more likely to suffer
alone." ]
At the risk of
repetition, here is what the TNIE wrote :
" While the world around is progressing, the
Indian military leaderhip seems stuck in a rut, continuing to believe that
women should be kept away from operational duties ".
In the light of the foregoing
Articles, I offer my silent prayer of gratitude to the 'Indian military
leadership being stuck in a RUT', and for their 'maturity', unlike the media
!! Also for not blindly following the "Progressive World", as our
media desires !!
Warm Regards
XXXX
***********************************
Dear XXXX
You are right. These self appointed zealots have not clue what military profession involves. I am reproducing what I wrote in Dec 2009 on the subject as it might interest you. Best,
R Hariharan
Onward, women soldiers!
The armed forces have a golden opportunity to set an example for the
rest of the nation in having empowered women join them to serve the country
BY COL R HARIHARAN
DURING the past three decades, the traditional male orientation of the armed
forces all over the world is undergoing a sex change. As more and more women
don the uniform, there are visible cracks in the macho citadels of armed
forces. Now they are trying to come to grips with the issue arising from
this.
Historically, women have
proved they are as good as men in combat. During World War II, 800,000 women
served in the Soviet armed forces; nearly 70 per cent of them fought in the
frontlines. But armed forces are a little reluctant to recognize this. They
have been propagating “masculine values” for centuries, cultivating
aggressive male persona as the essence of soldiering. So MCP attitudes are
ingrained in many of their traditions. The semantic signature of the male
superior attitude is visible in common military parlance. Epithets like
“walking like pregnant ducks” and “bunch of school girls” continue to echo in
the corridors of their hallowed chambers.
The Indian armed forces are
also in the throes of this phenomenon. Recently, the Vice-Chief of the Indian
Air Force, Air Marshal PK Barbora, touched off a minor controversy when he
said there were financial, operational and cultural constraints in having
women fighter pilots. On the other hand, for the first time in India’s naval
history, two women officers are being inducted in combatant jobs in the Naval
Maritime Squadron. They will be working as observers (air borne tacticians)
to manage weapons, sensors, radars and navigation on board maritime patrol
aircraft.
Air Marshal Barbora was only
restating the armed forces’ reservations on employing women in frontline
combat roles. However, the way he put it was provocative: “if a woman gets
pregnant, it will not be fruitful for either the force or her…” as training a
fighter pilot costs the government Rs 11.66 crore. After spending so much,
“not being able to utilize women operationally would not be a prudent thing,”
he added.
Women have been serving in the Indian armed forces since World War II.
But their intake as officers was only in medical, dental and nursing corps.
It was in 1992 that the Indian Army opened the doors of other services for
women officers and the Navy and Air Force followed suit. Since then, hairline
cracks in the male bastion have widened as more and more women join the
forces.
Starting with an initial intake of 50 women officers in 1992, the Army
now has 1100 (3.1 per cent) of them in a total strength of 35,377 officers.
This is the least among all the three services because the officer-soldier
ratio in the Army is less than in the naval and air forces. The Navy has the
largest presence with 750 (nearly 7 per cent) women out of a total of 10,760
officers. In the Air Force, out of a total of 7,394 officers, 300 (4.1 per
cent) are women.
At present, the Army has
the capacity to train 350 women cadets annually in the non-technical stream.
Of course their intake in the technical stream is based upon the
requirements. Women cadets undergo the same 49 weeks of training as men.
However, gender parity is a little slow in coming. Women are still not treated as equals in terms of engagement, service, and employment. Unlike men, only unmarried women can apply for commission in the Army. Women are eligible for the Short Service Commission (SSC) while their male counterparts can apply for permanent commission after five years of service. This limits the women officers’ career to 14 years of service. They have to retire at the peak of their competency, after serving as Lt Col for just one year.
Similarly, while all arms
and services are open to men, at present women are commissioned only in
services and in selected arms like air defence, signals, engineering and
intelligence. Even then they are not allowed in close combat duties. But this
has more to do with the nation’s cultural conditioning and harsh operational
conditions in which the Army operates.
The problems regarding
employment of women in the armed forces go well beyond the “military
mindset”. They have their roots in the social and cultural environment of the
country and systemic constraints of operations designed for male combatants.
Assertion of gender parity is the order of the day the world over. The pill
has made pregnancy optional for women. Growing consumerism is expanding the
traditional role of women in the family and more women are compelled to work
alongside men. The institution of marriage is no more the end-all for women
and single mothers are more readily accepted in society than ever before. The
Western world has come to terms with these changes more and women’s
empowerment is accepted in society. And the increased presence of women in
the armed forces is only a part of it. But the process is neither smooth nor
complete as women are facing major problems in integrating themselves in the
armed forces.
However, these changes are
yet to take place fully in our country. Despite cosmetic changes in urban
India, the social and cultural environment is still loaded against women. The
Indian soldier comes from rural and semi-urban areas where women are treated
as second-class citizens. In many parts of the country, female foeticide and
bride burning are endemic even among educated sections of society. In this
environment, male chauvinism continues to retard any process which tries to
bring about gender equity.
Political parties are still
shy of taking up women’s issues as the center piece of their election
campaigns. Without strong political support, women are yet to assert their
rights vigorously due to lack of awareness, and caste and religious
restrictions in the name of tradition. Women coming from the same social
milieu opting for military service represent the small number of pioneers
trying to break these barriers. So it is not surprising the armed forces are
extremely cautious in handling this politically sensitive issue.
On a recent TV talk show,
spirited young women, middle-aged socialites and a few men put up a strong
case for allowing women soldiers to fight shoulder to shoulder with men in
mixed combat units. I doubt very much whether they understood what they were
saying. I am sure they would not like their daughters to be cooped up in
underground shelters with a dozen or so combat soldiers at altitudes of over
14,000 ft along the borders for months at a time. There is a total lack of
privacy for anyone, let alone women.
Very few countries employ a
fully integrated military. Even in the US and Israel, where such integration
has taken place, rape is a major menace dogging women soldiers. And it is at
the hands of their male colleagues. According to Professor Helen Benedict,
who has researched the subject, a survey of female veterans of the US from
the Vietnam War to the first Gulf War revealed that 30 per cent were raped in
the military. Another study of veterans in 2004 from Vietnam to all the
subsequent wars found that 71 per cent of the women said they were sexually
assaulted or raped while in the military. The results of a 1992-93 study of
female veterans of the Gulf War and earlier wars were even more appalling –
90 per cent said they were sexually harassed in the military.
Can our society cope with
such issues when they come up in the armed forces as more women enter their
portals, when even in the national capital women are not safe from sexual
harassment and rape? Society’s problems are reflected in the armed forces,
although military training instils discipline. So integration of women in the
armed forces is going to be a long process. Society has to be more
enlightened in the way it treats women if it wants the armed forces to
increase the role of women on equal terms with men. And that will not happen
merely by sloganeering; it has to become the political agenda of the nation.
That does not mean the
armed forces should defer introduction of structural mechanisms to employ
women gainfully in a safe environment both during war and peace. The armed
forces, renowned for their operational management skills, have a golden
opportunity to set an example for the rest of the nation in having empowered
women join them to serve the country.
----------------------------------------------------
|
WOMEN IN THE INDIAN ARMY
By
Maj Gen S.G. Vombatkere, VSM (Retd),
30.6.2006
The desirability or otherwise of having women in the combat units of the
army has seen renewed debate with the recent suicide of a woman army officer.
What follows pertains to the army, where the nature of the combat zone is
entirely different from that of the navy and air force. The debate is centred
on women officers’ right to serve on combat duties in combat units in the
combat zone.
Women have fought valiantly in combat situations,
for example Russian women (civilians) in USSR against the German army during
World War II, notably in the battles of Stalingrad and Leningrad. But the
reason then was that there were too few men, and even boys and girls rose to
defend their land against German invasion. Women went into combat because of
dire necessity. In an earlier age Lakshmibai, Rani of Jhansi, rode into combat,
sword in hand, also because it was a case of dire necessity, and there is also
the legend of Joan of Arc. When dire necessity causes women to take up arms in
actual combat, they perform no less valiantly than men. The question is not of
courage or capability but of necessity.
In the present context, there is no dire necessity for
women in India to take up combat duties. That women officers’ training period
is less than for male officers and the standards are less rigorous, is not a
valid argument for keeping women out of combat duties. The operational
efficiency of the army is based on doing only what is necessary, and doing that
well and in the best possible manner. The decision to deploy women officers in
combat duties should be based on the question, “Is such deployment necessary
for, and will it enhance, combat effectiveness?”.
The command function and logistics, especially for junior officers,
often demands that they live with the men they command. For example, conditions
on the Siachen glacier in some isolated posts demand that the officer may have
to live in the same bunker with the men and perform ablutions alongside them,
sometimes in the open. This is obviously quite impractical if the officer in
the post is a young woman. Likewise, it would be inadvisable to detail a young
woman officer on long patrol. When equal rights are being emphasized, it is
unfair that only male officers are assigned to such duties. It is difficult
enough in rear areas and in non-combat appointments to manage logistics for
women officers, without having to complicate logistics in the combat zone.
Efficient logistical support is vital to the success of combat operations. Any
individual or group or activity that calls for commitment of disproportionate
resources is an unnecessary drain on scarce logistical resources. Further, a
woman officer being captured by the enemy can be a political problem in
addition to the military one.
A word on the problems of inter-personal relations between men and women
officers is appropriate. The orders given, or the manner or language in which
orders are given by a male officer can be unpalatable to any officer, male or
female, but a woman officer might react quite differently from a male officer.
She could, for example, falsely allege sexual harassment by a male officer
especially if the orders were given one-to-one, to “get back” at him for
previous real or perceived injustice inflicted on her. Thus, a commander would
have to be constantly on guard by giving orders to his subordinate woman
officer only in the presence of others so as to obviate the possibility of such
an accusation, which would cause multiple problems for him both in the unit and
at home with his family. In any situation and especially in a combat situation,
this “internal risk” is certain to stultify the full exercise of his command
function, which in turn can affect the operational efficiency of the entire
unit. It is not to suggest that this will invariably happen because finally
good, honest and honourable inter-personal relations are the bedrock of good
command. But the fear of a woman officer “taking it out” on a male colleague by
alleging sexual harassment will always remain, affecting command.
Women officers can surely perform as well as male officers in most
circumstances and even in combat, but the touchstone should be logistics and
the answers to the questions, “Is it necessary for combat effectiveness?” and
if so, “Is it worth the additional logistics involved?”. If dire necessity
dictates the induction of women officers for combat duties in the army then so
be it, because they are not the “weaker sex”.
(758 words of text)
_____________________________________________________________________________
** Maj Gen S.G. Vombatkere retired
from service in 1996, from the post of Additional DG (Discipline and Vigilance)
in Army HQ, New Delhi. The President of India awarded him the Visishta Seva Medal
(VSM) in 1993 for distinguished services rendered in Ladakh, in which region he
has over 5 years experience.
Contact details: Maj Gen S.G.Vombatkere, VSM (Retd) // 475, 7th
Main Road // Vijayanagar 1st Stage // Mysore – 570 017. Tel: 0821-2515187 E-mail:
sgvombatkere@hotmail.com
************ ******* GO BACK TO HOME PAGE
From: Bharat Chib
Sent: Sunday, 11 June, 2017 8:20 PM
To: nkd616@gmail.com
Subject: Re: WOMEN IN COMBAT ARMS - INDIAN ARMY
RESPECTED SIR
Women in combat in remote areas especially on LOC in the Bunkers
alongwiith men may create sexual harassment and women may also face many
problems in uniform during their periods because of non privacy and may not do
justice to their duties. However women can perform better in headquarters and
corps like AMC,ASC,AEC etc.
*********************************
From: Col Pradip Mitra
Sent: Sunday, 11 June, 2017 8:37 PM
To: nkd616@gmail.com
Cc: Yahoogroups
Subject: Re: WOMEN IN COMBAT ARMS - INDIAN ARMY
For the Indian sub continent combat
conditions do not warrant the fairer sex to be inducted. The hostile terrain and
weather conditions will put more stress on the men and I as an Infantry Officer
would not like my attention to get diverted from the enemy I am facing.for the
simple reason that protecting and safeguarding your health under such extreme
conditions is a challenging task itself and women would find it extremely
difficult or impossible to live on to such conditions.
Non combat arms are suitable for
womenfolk and they can play a crucial role in non combat conditions. Let us be
practical and with due respect to our brave women.
PRADIP MITRA
*******************************************
From: Angad Singh
Sent: Monday, 12 June, 2017 5:10 PM
Cc: nkd616@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [TSEWA] Re: WOMEN IN COMBAT ARMS - INDIAN
ARMY
Dear Sirs, With due respects to our womenfolk, I differ on the
concept of women officers in Services. I had spoken to a number of COs about
having women officers in he unit. The consensus has not been a healthy one.
Most of them were not happy with their performance. There have been a number of
cases involving sexual harassment of women officers. Even senior offices have
been sacked. If the women join in ranks in combat Arms, it is bound to create
lot of admnistrative and operational problems. What administrative
arrangements will be made of their living, bathing, night duties and so on.The CO
would have now dual operational task. Firstly taking care of enemy. Secondly
taking care of women soldiers - which is a very difficult task. It is likely to
result in number of disciplinary tasks. The CO is not likely to succeed in his
operational task so easily while the safety of women soldiers will always be on
the back of his mind.
.Lt Col Angad Singh (Retd)
************************************************
Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:28 am (PDT) . Posted by: "mmp kala" mmp_kala
I understand that women are to be inducted in the Corps of Military Police at the first instance. Will they go to field areas where the CMP posts are generally at the fringes of the Army units/ inhabited areas and at some places in desolate locations, or will they not be given such duties and will be posted in peace stations only whereby they will cause increased field tenures for the male soldiers? Will they be armed all the times so that they can shoot anyone trying to molest them? Will the Army construct separate barracks and bathrooms for them? What happens when the units are on collective training; what facilities will they be given for their privacy? Will they get additional leave during their monthly courses? And How will women soldiers bring up their nursing babies?
**********************************
From: S K Adya
Sent: Tuesday, 13 June, 2017 3:41 PM
Cc: nkd616@gmail.com
Subject: Re: WOMEN IN COMBAT ARMS - INDIAN
ARMY
To make a more effective
and sound recommendation, I would suggest to float a questionnaire on both the
advantages and disadvantages of inducting women at the battalion levels in the
fighting arms separately and supporting arms and supporting services separately.
Collecting the responses and filtering the same through their respective HQs to
a central point, it could lead to a sound all round decision. Most of the so far
commented are the points which would be of common concerns in all arms and
services.
In case we as TSEWA want to give our united recommendations, we could channelise through our ranks and follow up.
In case we as TSEWA want to give our united recommendations, we could channelise through our ranks and follow up.
For consideration.
With regards.
Lt Col SKAdya
*******************************
From: C Soni csoni99@yahoo.co.in
Sent: Sunday, 25 June, 2017 11:08 AM
Subject: Fw: [**SIGNALS-PARIVAAR**] MORE WOMEN IN THE INDIAN
ARMY
From
IC 2313 Lt Col Son (Retd) psc
M&S (Uk) FIE
We should never be frightened
of new social trends and forces. India is forward looking and women are
equal
Partners in new emerging
India.
In any future war they have an
equal
role in the Defence of the
country.
Only thing to fear in life is
the fear itself.
( What about Gen Eisenhower in
2nd
World War having a woman as his
jeep driver. He neither got demoeted nor lost the War.)
**************************************************
From: Mrinal Suman
Sent: Monday, 26 June, 2017 11:19 AM
Subject: [VeteransIndia] Re: [triservicesveterans] INCREASING THE
NUMBERS OF WOMEN IN THE INDIAN ARMY
Dear
All,
Maj Gen Mrinal Suman
Women in the Armed Forces:
Misconceptions and Facts
Major General Mrinal Suman
The recent debate about the induction of
women in the armed forces has been highly skewed and shallow. An issue that
critically affects the fighting potential of the armed forces has been reduced
to ‘equality of sexes’ and ‘women’s liberation’. Many ill-informed observers
have trifled such a sensitive matter by terming it as ‘conquering the last male
bastion’. Sadly, stances have been taken more on the basis of personal views and
mind-sets rather than on well evolved logic. Both military and non-military
experts are equally guilty in this regard.
In the recent past, the nation was
shocked to hear a retired senior Army officer recommending constitution of all
women battalions in the Indian Army. There cannot be a more preposterous and
perilous proposition. It is equally common to hear the argument that if the
Naxalites and LTTE can have women fighters, why the Indian armed forces should
be reluctant to do so. Often people quote the number of American women fighting
war in Iraq and Afghanistan to question India’s stance against allowing women in
combat. This article endeavours to remove some common misconceptions and put all
issues in their proper perspective.
To start with, it needs to be stressed
that the services carry no male chauvinistic mindset. The very fact that
daughters of service officers have excelled in all fields proves that service
officers do not suffer from any gender bias and are very supportive of women’s
advancement. However, the issue of women’s induction in the services warrants
singular treatment.
It will be instructive to take a look at
the genesis of the issue. Earlier, entry of women was limited to the Army
Medical Corps, the Army Dental Corps and the Military Nursing Service. In the
early 90s, a service Chief visited the United States and saw women participating
in Guards of Honour. He was suitably impressed and wondered why India should lag
behind in this aspect. Thus the decision to induct women was neither need-based
nor well thought-through. The first batch of women Short Service Commission
(SSC) officers joined in 1992. No attempt was made to study likely long term
implications of multiple issues involved and their effect on the fighting
potential of the services. In other words, a decision of colossal significance
was taken in a totally cavalier, slapdash and hasty manner. As the other two
services did not want to be seen as ‘male-chauvinists’, they followed suit. Soon
a race got underway between the three services to induct women in maximum number
of fields. It is only now that a plethora of complex issues are getting thrown
up with resultant adverse fall-out.
Presently, the Indian Army counts 2.44
percent women in its ranks, the Indian Navy 3.0 percent and the Indian Air Force
6.7 percent. The tenure of women SSC officers has since been increased to 14
years. The Government has also approved grant of Permanent Commission to SSC
(Women) officers prospectively in Judge Advocate General (JAG) Department and
Army Education Corps (AEC) of Army and their corresponding Branch/Cadre in Navy
and Air Force, Accounts Branch of the Air Force and Corps of Naval Constructors
of the Navy.
Common Misconceptions and
Facts
·
Women
must get equal opportunities in the services
The concept of equality of sexes is
unquestionable. Its application should, however, never affect the fighting
potential of the armed forces. Two points need to be highlighted here. First,
the armed forces are constituted for national defence and there can be no
compromise on that issue. Secondly, the armed forces are not a ‘Rozgar Yojana’
to provide employment to all segments of the society in equal proportion. As it
is a question of nation’s defence, the best man or woman should be selected for
every job. In other words, women should be inducted in the services only if they
add value or at least not affect it adversely. No right thinking individual can
advocate women’s induction at the cost of the fighting potential. That would be
disastrous for the country.
Interestingly, demand for equal
opportunities is selective in nature. Women want to join only as officers and
not as soldiers. Additionally, the concept of equality is given a go-by soon
after commissioning. Applications for peace postings and other special
dispensations proliferate. They join the military on the plank of equality of
sexes but this plank vanishes the day they join the training academy.
Thereafter, they again become the weaker sex needing special privileges.
·
Women
can perform all physical tasks as well as men
Standards of physical fitness of women
can never be the same as those of men. It is a biological reality and is true
for all fields including sports. In the case of women officers, Indian army has
lowered the standards to appallingly low levels. Even then many women fail to
qualify during their pre-commission training. Whereas male cadets are required
to run 5 km in 28 minutes, women are given 40 minutes. Similarly, males are
required to jump across a 9 feet wide ditch with full equipment and personal
weapon; women have to negotiate only a 5 feet wide ditch. Worse, most women fail
in the test.
All male officers and soldiers are
subjected to annual Battle Physical Efficiency Tests till they attain the age of
45 years. No such tests have been prescribed for women officers to avoid
embarrassment to them in front of the troops. Concerns have also been expressed
about the susceptibility of Indian women to frequent back problems, pelvic
injuries and stress fractures.
A recent review conducted by the British
army concluded that women have neither the upper-body strength nor the physical
resilience to withstand intensive combat. Tests in 2000 respondents found that
women were eight times more likely than men to sustain injuries other than
wounds in action.
·
Physical fitness is of lesser importance
in modern fighting
Need for physical effort is dictated by
two factors - level of technological development and nature of military’s
involvement. Requirement for physical prowess undoubtedly reduces as the armies
advance technologically. In other words, quantum of physical effort needed is
inversely proportional to technological progression. Thus, as an army evolves
technologically, more high-tech jobs get generated where technically qualified
women can be gainfully employed. In a high-tech army like the US, a woman
sitting in the US mainland can effectively guide drone attacks in Afghanistan.
India on the other hand is still a second generation technology force which is
trying desperately to graduate to the third generation. Indian defence forces
are man-power intensive needing physical ground effort. India has very few
high-tech jobs.
As regards degree and extent of a
military’s involvement in active combat duties, countries like Canada and
Australia face no internal or external threat and their militaries are generally
in peacetime mode with routine passive duties. They can certainly afford to have
a larger percentage of women in their forces. Contrast this with India where the
majority of Army troops are deployed on active combat duties in remote,
inhospitable and uncongenial areas. Only physically fit and tough troops can
survive. Worse, peace tenures are short and there are very few periods of
comparative lull.
Therefore, the Indian services continue
to be physical-power intensive and will remain so in the near future. Only the
very fit can survive to deliver in India’s hostile environment.
·
The US
has deployed a large number of women soldiers for fighting wars in Iraq and
Afghanistan
Although a large number of women have
been deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan, their employment has been confined to
support functions. Although till the end of 2009, the US and allies had suffered
a total of 4689 casualties, there has not been a single woman war casualty.
Similarly, despite the fact that the US and allies have suffered 1555
casualties, not a single woman has lost her life in the Afghanistan war so far.
Many people tend to confuse casualties due to hostile action with combat
casualties. The US has lost 19 female servicemen in Iraq to hostile activities
like car bombs, IED blasts and helicopter crashes since the beginning of 2007,
but there has been no combat casualty. It is simply because of the fact no women
are deployed in combat duties. As a matter of fact, they are forbidden to be
placed in direct ground combat with enemy. They generally perform medical,
intelligence, logistic and traffic control duties. Women are thus kept sheltered
in safe appointments, away from the risk of capture by the adversary.
Even in Israel which has conscription for women (as well as men), women
are not allotted active battle field duties. They serve in technical,
administrative and training posts to release men for active duty.
·
If BSF
can have an all women battalion to guard border, why not the Indian
Army
The Border Security Force (BSF) has
certainly raised an all women battalion and deployed it on the international
border. However, the following important facts need to be highlighted:-
a) The battalion is led by male officers
and subordinate functionaries.
b) The battalion has not been positioned on
the Line of Control where firing and infiltration attempts are frequent.
Instead, it has been deployed near Ferozepur on the International Border (IB)
which is totally peaceful and where Indian and Pak troops routinely exchange
sweets on festivals.
c) Even on IB no independent sector has
been entrusted to the women battalion. It has been superimposed on an existing
male battalion. Importantly, women perform no night guard duties – these are
performed by males.
Earlier, village women were not allowed
to go across the border fence to cultivate their fields as no women sentries
were available to frisk them. It was a sore point with the border folks. The
sole purpose of raising the women battalion is to redress this long standing
grievance. Their task is akin to what CISF women have been carrying out at the
airports for long – frisking of women. Therefore, it will be incorrect to call
the BSF battalion a fighting force.
·
Women
officers help overcome the shortage of officers in the
forces
It is an erroneous impression that there
is a shortage of male volunteers for the services. As per the report of the
Union Public Service Commission for 2006-07, there were a total of 5,49,365
candidates for 1724 vacancies for all civil services examinations with an
Applicants to Post Ratio (APR) of 319. On the other hand, 3,41,818 candidates
applied for 793 vacancies in the National Defence Academy (NDA), maintaining APR
at a healthy 431. It implies that for every seat in NDA there were 431
applicants. Therefore, it is a fallacy that male volunteers are insufficient. It
is just that the services seek very exacting standards for males while women are
accepted with abysmally low standards.
·
Short
service commission for women has proved highly
productive
As a matter of fact, short service
commission (normally extended to 10 years) has proved to be a totally wasteful
and counter-productive exercise. Women normally get commissioned at the age of
23 to 25 years. Within two to three years of their commission, they get married,
mostly to colleague male officers. Soon thereafter they start applying for peace
postings on compassionate grounds to be with their husbands. Every pregnancy
means three years’ exemption from physical activities – one year pre-natal and
two years post-delivery. With the standard two-child norm, a women officer
remains physically inactive for close to six years. It implies that after the
first post-commission tenure, a woman officer is rarely in a position to
participate in field exercises and has to be exempted all out-door work. Thus
the services gain little.
In an informal interaction, a senior
Junior Commissioned Officer (JCO) questioned the rationale of granting SSC to
women. “In the case of men, 25 to 35 years age span is most productive and grant
of SSC is understandable. On the other hand, women have to raise their families
during that period. By granting SSC to women, we have achieved nothing except
increase the load on maternity wards of military hospitals,” he opined.
·
If
women can fight as soldiers in LTTE and Naxalite outfits, why not in the
services
Comparing irregular outfits with
constitutionally created regular forces shows speciousness of the logic. In any
case, even LTTE recruited women only after it fell short of male volunteers.
Moreover, women held no high appointments and were generally used as pawns in
indoctrinated suicide squads. If one was to carry the comparison forward, LTTE
had recruited boys of 15 years to take up arms and act as human bombs. A
lawfully structured formal organisation cannot be expected to follow suit.
·
Indian
women officers have proved themselves and established their credibility as
leaders
Notwithstanding the public posturing of
the services top brass, the experience so far has been highly discouraging.
Superior male officers admire their enthusiasm despite the environmental
difficulties, but are faced with the twin problems of their safety and useful
employment. Additionally, as many duties (like night duty officer) cannot be
assigned to women, male officers have to be given additional work load, which
they resent. There are also concerns, based on Israeli studies, that soldiers
first instinct may be to defend the women in their ranks rather than to fight
the enemy.
Male officers also question the logic of
having women only as officer. Indian officers pride themselves in the fact that
they lead from the front and hence have to be better than their soldiers both
physically and professionally. But, by having women only in the officer cadre an
impression gets conveyed to the environment that officers’ duties are softer and
can be carried out by women as well, thereby lowering their
standing.
As per an informal survey carried out,
81 percent of the troops were convinced that women officers could never lead
them in war efficiently. The balance 19 percent were unsure of their response.
Acceptability of women as leaders was thus very poor. Another segment of
respondents viewed the whole issue as a political gimmick which did not warrant
serious attention. “How can the Government be naïve enough to think that a
leader who cannot run, train and exercise with troops and lacks required
physical fitness can lead them in war?” they query.
·
Women
in Western forces are well accepted and adjusted
It is a fallacy. Acceptance of women in
the military has not been smooth in any country. Despite efforts made to
sensitise the environment, they continue to be confronted with social, behavioral and
psychological problems at all levels. To date most countries do not allow women
tank crews because
of the cramped conditions and lack of privacy. There are also concerns about
cramped living conditions on board submarines and dangers posed by fumes inside
the submarine to a foetus if a woman becomes pregnant.
Sexual harassment and assaults of women
soldiers is known to be blatant and quite prevalent in the US forces. A sexual
harassment hotline set up at Aberdeen received 6,825 calls from women from all
branches of the military in just two months. Hundreds of women are said to have
complained of sexual assault in the forces since the beginning of Iraq war in
2003. Level of moral degradation can be gauged from the fact that ‘command rape’
has come to be accepted as a common phenomenon in the military - a superior
official, under the might of his command authority, can force a subordinate
woman soldier to accede to his sexual demands.
A joint survey carried out in 2006 in
the UK by the Ministry of Defence and the Equal Opportunities Commission found
that 67% of the respondents had experienced sexualised behaviour directed at
them personally in the previous 12 months. Worse, over half of those who made a
formal complaint stated that there had been negative consequences as a result of
which 64% were considering leaving the services.
On the other hand, Indian armed forces
can be rightfully proud of their record which is far better than that of any
advanced nation in the world. Women are treated in a manner befitting their
dignity and their safety is ensured.
India Needs to Exercise
Caution
It is universally accepted that
induction of women in the services should be dictated by the level of
technology, prevailing security environment and the nature of likely deployment.
Availability of adequate number of male volunteers is another major
consideration.
India should follow a graduated
approach. Women’s expertise, talent and competence should be profitably utilised
in areas which are totally non-combat in nature. For the present, women must
continue to play their established role in the medical, dental and nursing
services, both as short service and permanent commission officers. However, they
should not be granted short service commission in any other branch. The
Government has rightly approved grant of permanent commission to women in legal
and education departments of the three services, accounts branch of the Air
Force and constructors of the Navy. Grant of permanent commission should also be
considered for women in Survey of India, Military Engineering Service
Militarised Cadre and Director General Quality
Assurance.
The current policy of non-induction of
women in combat arms should continue. Additionally, their entry into Engineers,
Signals, Supply Corps, Ordnance and EME (Electrical and Mechanical Engineers)
should be deferred till infusion of technology generates adequate number of
high-tech jobs.
Finally, it should never be forgotten
that the raison d'être for the constitution of the armed forces is to ensure
security of the country. Decisions which have a far reaching effect on the
defence potential of the armed forces must be taken with due diligence. Instead
of replicating a model, India must chart its own policy. It has an experience of
18 years. Honest feedback must be sought to appreciate the true ground situation
and initiate corrective measures. Most importantly, the military brass must show
moral courage to admit that the present mess demands a holistic review of the
policy, protestations of self-styled champions of gender-parity notwithstanding.
Decisions taken as a matter of political and populist expediency can prove
disastrous for the nation in the long run. Defence matters cannot be treated as
publicity gimmick to flaunt sexual
equality.*****
From: VeteransIndia@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:VeteransIndia@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 9:31 AM
To: Veteransindia; triservicesveterans@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Yahoogroups
Subject: [VeteransIndia] Re: [triservicesveterans] INCREASING THE NUMBERS OF WOMEN IN THE INDIAN ARMY
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 9:31 AM
To: Veteransindia; triservicesveterans@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Yahoogroups
Subject: [VeteransIndia] Re: [triservicesveterans] INCREASING THE NUMBERS OF WOMEN IN THE INDIAN ARMY
Dear
All,
Veteran Jaswal's "statement" is accurate and sets the right tone on a contentious issue. Also it is good to see a wide spectrum of agreement among Veterans on the issue.
NOW, importantly, this view needs to be communicated to the Army HQ (sorry, Integrated HQ of MOD (Army) !!) so that it gets to the Chief and other PSOs. Who among us will do that? May I make bold to suggest some Veteran in this group who is located in Delhi NCR?
Regards.
Veteran Jaswal's "statement" is accurate and sets the right tone on a contentious issue. Also it is good to see a wide spectrum of agreement among Veterans on the issue.
NOW, importantly, this view needs to be communicated to the Army HQ (sorry, Integrated HQ of MOD (Army) !!) so that it gets to the Chief and other PSOs. Who among us will do that? May I make bold to suggest some Veteran in this group who is located in Delhi NCR?
Regards.
From: Brig S S Jaswal jaswal972@yahoo.co.in
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 9:44:34 PM
To: xxxxx
Subject: Re: [triservicesveterans] INCREASING THE NUMBERS OF WOMEN IN THE INDIAN ARMY
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 9:44:34 PM
To: xxxxx
Subject: Re: [triservicesveterans] INCREASING THE NUMBERS OF WOMEN IN THE INDIAN ARMY
At times our senior heirarchy gets carried away too soon to please our
politicians by making preposterous statements like "women to be inducted in the
combat arms". Nothing can be more farcical than this. Women were inducted as
officers in some Arms and Services in the mid 90s. As a Sapper I must admit that
our senior Sapper Officers didn`t want to be left behind in the race to score
browny points and inducted them in Engineer Regiments. Luckily, I was not
affected as a CO, since I was also commanding an Engineer Regiment at that time.
But many were not that lucky and had to bear the brunt of this order later. Most
of the experiences and views of COs who had women officers is not that pleasant.
I will confine myself to Engineer Regiments. In one case in a peace area the CO
had to allot a separate room to a woman officer. As a result four bachelor
officers had to share one room as there is always a perpetual shortage of
accommodation. Among the four of them they made their own leave programme to
ease the situation. The problem gets highlighted during collective training.
My experience as a Chief Engineer of a Corps in the deserts during Op
Parakram was quite amusing at times. My Intelligence Officer who was located in
Jaisalmer at the Corps HQ had his wife, a Signals officer, located ahead of him
as part of the Division Signal Regiment - quite a unique case where the wife is
ahead of the husband in the battle zone. Four of the Engineer Regiments deployed
had a woman officer each. Each CO had their own problems. In one case while
doing recce to lay a live minefield the woman officer misread the compass
bearing and the minefield was laid at an angle contrary to the plan. I was told
about this by the CO but told him to keep quiet about it. The minefield remained
as such for about 8 months till demining orders were given. I don`t know what
would have happened had actual hostilities started. In another case the CO told
me that the bachelor officers complained that they had to very cautious as to
what they spoke in the field mess in the presence of the woman officer. Even the
TV channels had to be regulated. In the other case, the CO kept an eagle`s eye
on the woman officer as a couple of bachelor officers had an eye on her. The CO
kept the lady in the RHQ. But I must confess she did a good job of maintaining
the minefield record plans. Another common problem was the Sahayak detailed for
the women officers - I need not elaborate any further. These are some of the
practical and very genuine problems faced by COs who have women officers in
their units. I cannot imagine the problems in case they are inducted in the
fighting arms.
No doubt women officers are competent. But they should be utilised judiciously
in a role which suits their abilities/capabilities, like in MES in peace
locations. While doing Additional Chief Engineer in a MES Zone in Shillong, the
Camp Comdt had to go on urgent leave. I requested the woman officer to officiate
for some time as there was no other officer. The manner in which she did the job
was par excellence. Even the JCOS/ORs in the camp were very happy and supported
the way she conducted herself. Of course her father was also posted in the same
Zone. Another woman officer did a wonderful job in collating all the legal cases
of the Zone. The point to be highlighted is that women officers can definitely
produce the results if the right job is given to them. Later as Addl Chief
Engineer(Works) in Western Command, I had a couple of women officers and they
did a satisfactory job of their allotted tasks.
The Army Chief has stated that women may be inducted in the ranks in the CMP
(Military Police). There may be a possibilty if the correct role is given to
them. But induction in combat units should be a strict NO. These are my personal
views.
Brig
SS Jaswal, Veteran Madras Sapper,
Panchkula.
**************************************
Are
we short of able bodied young men that we have to resort to recruiting women in
combat roles ?!!. Several thousand young men line up at every recruiting rally.
Comparison with Israel and USA is not relevant. The population of Israel is so
small that every man, woman and child has to pick up arms in Defense of their
motherland. In the US there are not sufficient volunteers to join the defense
services. So let us not ape these countries where the circumstances are totally
different.
Regards
MGT
***********************************************************************
We appreciate your views and agree with you without any reservations what so ever, as regards the capabilities are concerned. We too have also mentioned that there is no doubt in any body's mind about the capabilities in intellect, sincerity, dedication and professional competence of the women that they can perform better than men at times. These are duly highlighted by Maj Gen PK Mallick as well as by Lt General (Retd) Baljit Singh in their articles as above. The officers who have given comments have also stated the same.
We have accepted them in the Armed forces in the Supporting Arms and services. However inducting them into the Combat Arms (Armd, Inf & Arty) of the unit leaves every one with a big and shivering question. How can we even think of sending a female as FOO with an assaulting infantry company. We have just today published write up by Maj Gen Sudhir Vombatkere above which he has kindly shared with us. The reports by Colonel Anne Wright a woman Officer of the US Army, published in New York Times on the issue are revealing and are enough to raise any one's hair in shock. These need special consideration.
We have accepted them in the Armed forces in the Supporting Arms and services. However inducting them into the Combat Arms (Armd, Inf & Arty) of the unit leaves every one with a big and shivering question. How can we even think of sending a female as FOO with an assaulting infantry company. We have just today published write up by Maj Gen Sudhir Vombatkere above which he has kindly shared with us. The reports by Colonel Anne Wright a woman Officer of the US Army, published in New York Times on the issue are revealing and are enough to raise any one's hair in shock. These need special consideration.
Gen Sudhir Vombatkere has also given us write up of Col Hariharan which deserves serious understanding before taking any action. The battle environment, as you know, in Combat Situations is totally different. Our fears of sexual assaults on women and consequent degeneration of the fighting capabilities of the fighting units are not just unfounded. We have a structured Army based on ethnic groups, as such the environment is totally special totally different from the other Armies of the world, so called progressive nations.
Imagine if a woman is captured as PW by the enemy and the treatment which will be meted out to her by our known adversaries, even if she is wounded. It is unimaginable and shocking giving shivers down any one's spine. Let any father be apprised of the same first, and then ask him whether he will let his daughter join the Combat units.
Let the women folk understand the risks involved in their participation in Combat, they will understand that the combat arms are not for them. let the media be educated, ask these TV girls if they will accept falling into the hands of the enemy in battle situations. I am being curt and straight forward as such many may not like what I have stated, but facts are facts. As human beings we avoid discussing death similarly we also avoid even thinking of the sexual assaults on women specially in the battle conditions.
I am witness to the after cease fire programme organised by Ajanta Arts of Sunil Dutt, who came with his wife Nargis and troupe. Our formation was given the responsibility for the show at Nainakot(Pakistan) in Shakagarh sector. It was Mid Jan 1972 I think. The soldiers were seated on ground on their ground sheets and engineers had prepared a stage using duck boars. Sunil Dutt came out with his usual Josh "Sar Zamin and all that" there was big Bharat Mata ki Jai' and lots of Josh. The programme started with Desh bhagti Song by female singer, all well till now. Now came the turn of a film dancer. As she did one or two Jhatkas, there was uproar, lots of men got up and began dancing and making some gestures which you can understand. Seeing the situation going out of control, we youngsters who were assigned to these film Hastis got them out quickly and rushed them to our mess in our jeeps. Our Cdr there loaded them in three APCs and rushed them back to Dinanagar during the night with us as escorts. The nightmare was averted, and we thanked God. That was the last of any cultural programme till we moved back. The men are men and the battle situations, where death is just walking along with you any thing is possible, normal aadmi can turn into haiwan at the spur of a moment.
Let us not ignore all this in our un-called for quest to follow the so called progressive nations. They are short of manpower ad are compelled to push their women into battle. We have no such compulsions. Let us maintain our Armed Forces fully fit for War in all respects. Any dilution of any form will be a costly mistake our Nation will make.
Brig Narinder Dhand
Owner URL:: http://signals-pariwar.blogspot.in
********************************************************************************************************
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As an Infantry man I have never understood as to what is the need for inducting women. Armed forces irrespective of the societal needs or compulsions must remain a machine fit to win a war. Women can only divert attention from the task in hand even when physically matching with men in every respect in performance - General Mattis has described it very clearly though US government still had its way. Our Chiefs have been their "Masters Voice" perhaps because the government of the day will always have its way!
ReplyDeleteWOMEN ARE PHYSIOLOGICALLY NOT CREATED BY THE CREATOR. THIS HANDICAP DOES NOT PERMIT THEIR PARTICIPATION IN COMBAT DUTIES LT.COL SARPESHKAR, VETERAN
ReplyDeleteLet us not ape US, Isreal, Russian and Chinese armies to induct Indian ladies as combat soldiers. It is downright foolish thought. Our girls are not designed for such roles yet. Some of our combat zones are too hostile and difficult for girls to operate. At best they can be inducted into support units at safe distances from combat areas.
ReplyDeleteRear Admiral JMS Sodhi AVSM, VSM red
ReplyDeleteWhilst I am all for giving women equal opportunity in all fields, we must be careful with the Defense Forces and not ape the western countries who have women in the Armed Forces due to an acute shortage of manpower. In our case for every jawan we enlist there are hundreds waiting in the queue and there is no shortage of qualified and eligible manpower. Women are biologically not equal to men and if they were so, the whole issue of procreation would be turned omits head. Moreover, women are as good or even better then men in such spheres as education, reception desks, telephone operators and many many more such fields were grace and politeness is required. So I do not recommend women joining the forces as they can create more problems for the Command and can always complain of gender discrimination if their demands are not met
Brig Subhash Katoch (Retd) , kat_subhash@yahoo.co.in
ReplyDeleteWe are blessed to have enough young fit men keen to serve in combat roles. There is no need to induct women into this arena. It would be inefficient , rather disastrous. Most proponents have no clue about the requirements and conditions of a combat soldier in field. If any professional soldier is backing this idea, I suspect their motive or credentials. Just agreeing to a hairbrained idea, for political correctness or gender equality issues is incorrect. Army is not meant to tackle women protestors, let police do that job. They have enough women for this.
We are blessed to have enough young fit men keen to serve in the Army - I feel that women are NOT required even in supporting arms and services and certainly not in the combat units. There is no need to induct women into the Army or IAF or IN. It is stupid for us where we have so much population - it is inefficient, uneconomical, creates a number of problems which are being accepted in peace but would become rather disastrous in war. And the army is designed for war - not peace. We have had enough of political correctness and gender equality - God had created men and women differently. Let us at understand that and thereby respect God.
ReplyDeleteCol A Sunder Rajan(Retd) sunderasr@gmail.com-Women have been inducted into defence services in western countries and Israel where men draftees/volunteers are in shortage . In India we have No such shortage of men volunteers . So far the experiment of even women officers has Not been good and now the move to induct women in enlisted ranks, the rank and file, is fraught with immense problems and is sure to destroy the cohesiveness of a combat unit.
ReplyDeleteBrigadier R Vinayak, VSM vinayak.ramnarayan@gmail.com
ReplyDeleteMaj Gen PK Mallik, VSM may be well justified in his views especially keeping in mind his personal experience in handling Lady Officers. However, I have my own reasons to believe that employing women in combat role should not be shot down just because of individual mindsets.
I too had the experience of inducting Lady Officers in to the Corps of Army Air Defence (AAD) of the Indian Army that comprises Regiments like any other Arm like Armoured Corps, Artillery, Engineers, Signals or for that matter Infantry. Lady Officers were initially inducted into AAD in 2004 when I was commanding an Independent AD Brigade in highly active Counter Insurgency / Counter Terrorism (CI / CT) area in Jammu and Kashmir where in the Brigade and units under command were employed on CI / CT role. Although I was quite apprehensive about tasking Lady Officer on CI / CT tasks with troops, yet I did experiment the young Lady Officers to combat tasks and realised that my apprehensions were unfounded. I would like to share the following facts to justify the induction of Women in combat roles.
For those who are adversely critical of this step I would like to tell them that the Lady Cadets in Officer Training Academy Chennai have the almost same standard of physical fitness as Gentlemen Cadets. Nidhi Dubey the Veer Nari who is presently undergoing pre-commission training has cleared toughest of physical endurance tests like 30 km and 40 km marches.
I had shared a link in which there was mention of a Lady Officer [from my REGIMENT - ARMY AIR DEFENCE (AAD)]- Captain Divya Ajith Kumar - who not only won the Sword of Honour but also won the Silver Gun for Topping the Young Officer's Course (AAD), later excelled in the Long Gunnery Staff Course and retained as Instructor in Army AD College. She is a National Level Shooter and led the First ever Women Officer's Republic Day Contingent of the Army on 26 Jan 2016.
I recall when I was Brigade Commander - a Lady Officer, Capt Niharika Bhardwaj - one of the initial lot inducted into AAD was trained and made to fire a Shoulder Fired Surface to Air Missile (SAM) - She did fire and hit the target - bang on leaving the best of male firers behind. This she achieved even before she went for Young Officer's Course.
I would also like to mention that another Lady Officer of the initial lot, Maj Ratna Malik on reporting to the Unit on commissioning was sent directly to Ramban area where my Brigade was located for exercising Operational control over troops deployed on Road Opening Patrol (ROP) duties. The very next day after she reported to the ROP column, Ratna set out with her troops and carried out sanitation of the National Highway Jammu - Srinagar on the most sensitive stretch that too during Amaranth Yatra period sometime, the lady Officer performed her duty with due diligence.
Another example I would like to add is of Maj Vidya Jitesh (Nair) from the Regiment that I commanded who excelled in all courses to mention a few - she topped Quartermasters Officer's Course, Instructor Grading (BI) in Junior Command (JC) Course she has been Instructor at OTA Chennai and done a tenure in United Nations (UN) Peacekeeping Mission in Lebanon.
All these Lady Officers have earned respect of the troops by virtue of their exceptionally high standard of professional competence. There will be many more such promising Officers and the list can carry on.
Since women have carved a niche for themselves in the officer cadre, the next step to induct women in the ranks will enhance efficacy of women Officers. I have no doubts about that the women will prove themselves to be an asset to the Army.
JAI HIND.
Dear Brig Vinayak,
ReplyDeleteWe appreciate your views and agree with you without any reservations what so ever, as regards the capabilities are concerned. We too have also mentioned that there is no doubt in any body's mind about the capabilities in intellect, sincerity, dedication and professional competence of the women that they can perform better than men at times. These are duly highlighted by Maj Gen PK Mallick as well as by Lt General (Retd) Baljit Singh in their articles as above. The officers who have given comments have also stated the same.
We have accepted them in the Armed forces in the Supporting Arms and services. However inducting them into the Combat Arms (Armd, Inf & Arty) of the unit leaves every one with a big and shivering question. How can we even think of sending a female as FOO with an assaulting infantry company. We have just today published write up by Maj Gen Sudhir Vombatkere above which he has kindly shared with us. The reports by Colonel Anne Wright a woman Officer of the US Army, published in New York Times on the issue are revealing and are enough to raise any one's hair in shock. These need special consideration.
We have accepted them in the Armed forces in the Supporting Arms and services. However inducting them into the Combat Arms (Armd, Inf & Arty) of the unit leaves every one with a big and shivering question.
Since long test is not accepted here, I have given full text in the body of this article.
Brig Narinder Dhand
Owner URL:: http://signals-pariwar.blogspot.in
Dear Brig Dhand,
ReplyDeleteI would like to add that Army Air Defence (AAD) is a combat support arm just like Arty, Infantry. Firing of SAMs, AD guns are in no way less combat. In a way Lady officer are already in combat support arms since long. This aspect has been covered in my earlier write up.
Regards,
Brig R Vinayak, VSM
Email ID: vinayak.ramnarayan@gmail.com
Place of Residence: Bhopal
It is highly educative to read the actual experiences of officers who were bitten by the bug. I do not think, that given the mental perception and psychological orientation of the Indian subcontinent, we should be prisoners of the skewed philosophy of either the British,American and the Israeli armies.
ReplyDeleteBesides, shifting the responsibility for such cosmetic mutilation to the civilian hierarchy is not rational.When Babu Jagjivan Ram was the D.M., he even suggested to have a common mess for all ranks which did not fructify because of the saner advice he received from the Chieves. Thus ultimately every Chief from 92 to the present must share equally for the present imbroglio where the responsibility for maintaining an efficient combat force has been compromised.
K.Balasubramaniam. J.W.O.(retd.)1971
ReplyDeleteIAF.Bangalore.