This Site was created in 2008 as Signals Family, it is now fully dedicated to the Veterans of the Indian Army, Navy and IAF to guide and help them in managing their Post-Retirement phase. Its a Mega-Store of verified updates on our concerns (Original URL has to Stay). Its my payback to the Community makes me Happy to help my fellow Veterans (सेवा परमो धर्मो) *Brig Narinder Dhand (Veteran)*.
OROP-2 - YOUR ARREARS (UPTO MAR 2023)
THE CALCULATION TOOL POSTED IN THIS POST SHOWS YOUR REVISED TOTAL PENSION FOR APR-23 AND TOTAL ARREARS UPTO MAR-2023 (DA@38%) WITHOUT INDULGING INTO ANY MATHEMATICAL CALCULATIONS
PAYMENTS OF ARREARS-
Its final now as directed by the Supreme Court of India. The arrears will be paid as under :-
a. By 30 Apr 23 - Family Pensioners and Gallantry Award Winners. (Already over but many still to get them)
b. By 30 Jun 2023 - Pensioners above 70 years of age.
c. Remaining pensioners will be paid arrears in three instalments by 31st Aug 23, 30 Nov 23, all arrears will be cleared by 28 Feb 2024.
DT 20th Jan 23 (CLICK TO DOWNLOAD) , includes Table No 1 for RCOs and No 2 for Medicos giving the revised basic pension under OROP-2. To know your total arrears please note down your pre-revised basic pension as well as revised basic pension from the tables and then simply insert the details in the TOOL below carefully by following instructions based on Your Date Of Birth, AGE Factor and Disability Percentage where applicable. The total arrears up to 31 Dec 2022 are instantly displayed WITHOUT EVEN A SINGLE MATHEMATICAL CALCULATION by you.
We have recently upgraded the tool upto Mar-23 since most pensioners are getting arrears with 38% DA and pre-revised basic pension. The new pension arrears seen in the tool are calculated taken into account your month wise age from Jul 2019 to Mar 2023 and the disability percentage where applicable.
The total Pension for March 2023 which come up in the tool takes into account all factors like age and disability and old DA @ 38% , before any taxes. In most cases the Apr pension has come with revised basic and 42% DA. The difference of 4% DA from Jan to Mar 23 has been paid separately by the PDA in Apr. In your case if its been bit different for these 3 months please add or deduct the difference so manually calculated in our specific case.
We are happy to design and share TWO on line tools not only for our registered members but also for the Veterans who have yet to join our portal, they are welcome to send their particulars viz Rank, Name, Email ID and Corps/ Regt (these FOUR are a must, but you can add your mobile and address if you so desire) to mgr.grps@gmail.com or simply by clicking this link ---- https://bit.ly/3Iqnv0land clicking on submit button in there.
The first one is a very simple on line calculator meant for pensioners who are below 80 years as in Apr 23 and have no disability. The second one is a universal calculator which incorporates the age enhancement as well as the disability percentage to give you the total arrears.
In the first one as seen below one needs to enter the Date of Birth,OROP -1 Basic pension and the revised basic pension in OROP-2. This gives instant results and the entire calculations are seen including the total pension with DA for Apr 23 for your check.
OROP-2 ARREARS - SIMPLE CALCULATOR
Note - The date of birth is very important in this calculator since it is check for the applicability of this calculator for below 80 years old pensioners and family pensioners. Enter the Date like this 13-JUN-1945 as otherwise errors may occur.
OROP-2 - UNIVERSAL TOOL FOR GETTING ARREARS
The universal tool displays results based on your data when entered in the CORRECT FORMAT as indicated there into the Green cells. In case there is no increase in the revised pension this tool will show ZERO.
Your particulars ie (1) IC No, (2) Rank, (3) Name, (4) DOB, (5) Qualifying Service for Pension (6) Disability % (7) Basic Pension as existing (8) Revised OROP-2 Basic Pension (9) DOC and (10) DOR. are required to be typed in the GREEN Cells. The default entries will get replaced it self, alternatively, if needed first delete them and then type your data.
The tool will auto calculate your AGE FACTOR for Pension enhancement on completion of 80 and so on years based on your Date of Birth (DOB) so entered in the correct format as19-JUN-1945.It does not accept any other format of date, and would show error. Your age today and on other days will automatically appear down to No, of days. NOTE We are giving here an extract of the 7CPC Pension and that of the revised OROP pension wef Jul 2019. For more details please see the charts as given in GoI letter (placed at the end.
The rates of DA as applicable for the 42 months and age and disability enhancements in pension as entitled gets auto calculated to display the final figures of arrears under different heads from Jul 19 to Mar 2023..
CALCULATION -TOOL--- Be patient
Tool-loading may take little time based on the configuration of your computer/device and the internet speed at your location. It has been fully tested time and again and last on 23 Apr 2023 for on line operations and accuracy of calculations under all options covering ALL RANKS of the Armed Fprces, age enhancements and the disability percentage where applicable.
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IMPORTANT -- In case it takes too long do use another device preferably a laptop with MS Office on CHROME Browser. Please note that in case it does not open and shows errors, there has to be an issue at the user's end and should be checked. There is nothing wrong in the coding and calculations which are done for 42 months separately for each month. It has been used and tested by nearly 90,000 users as per statistics noted from the server.
Your DATA will not be saved as the tool is programmed to revert to default entries once the browser is closed by you.
The data can only be entered in green boxes, all other boxes containing codes are duly protected and cannot be edited. After all the Green cells are filled up Press ENTER or mouse click any where in the tool, the Results incl Total Arrears are displayed instantly giving their break down.
Your Total Revised Monthly Pension based on new basic, Age and disability as entitled on 31 Mar 2023 is also calculated and displayed.
ALTERNATIVELY -IN CASE THE AGE REMAINS BELOW 80 YRS TILL DATE AND THERE IS NO DISABILITY ONE CAN SIMPLY MULTIPLY THE INCREASE WITH MULTIPLICATION FACTOR - 52.26 SO ARRIVED AT AS SHOWN HERE TO GET THE ARREARS TILL DEC 22 only.
Your arrears for Jan to Mar etc should be added by manual calculations by the user .
You will also be entitled to Rebate in Income Tax on Arrears pertaining to previous years in case you had paid I-Tax on lower slabs. The TOOL also shows the year wise arrears duly auto calculated. For more details on rebate on income tax pertaining to the arrears please read the web post by clicking here.
The revised tables as applicable to all ranks are given in the MoD letter mentioned above however the table Nos 1 and 2 for Regular Commissioned Officers and the medicos are posted below for ready reference. Please note the ordinary family pension is generally 60% of the Retiring Pension.
OROP-2 Table For Regular Commissioned Officers
OROP-2 Table for AMC/RVC/ADS - officers
OROP-2 TABLE NO 12 ORDINARY FAMILY PENSION RCOs
Some important points shared by our esteemed veteran--
The OROP Equalization Tables are issued by DESW and the Banks will commence payment of Arrears and revised pension on receipt of PCDA Circular by them
Applicability of OROP2 Policy Letter
The provisions of this letter shall be applicable to all pensioners/family pensioners who had been retired/ discharged/invalided out from service/died in service or after retirement in the rank of Commissioned Officers, Honorary Commissioned Officers, JCOS/ORs and Nom Combatants (Enrolled) of Army, Navy, Air Force, Defence Security Corps, Territorial Army & Ex-State Forces and are in receipt of pension/family pension as on 01.07.2019 (except pensioners retired after previous OROP revision on premature retirement byown request).
The provisions of this letter, however, do not apply to UK/HKSRA/KCIO pensioner Pakistan & Burma Army pensioners, Reservist pensioners and pensioners in receipt of Ex-gratia payments as provided in para 4 of MoD letter dated 07.11.2015.
It has also been laid down in para-2.6 of MoD letter dated 04.Jan.2023 that the pensioners retired on or after 01.Jul.2014 on premature retirement on own request are not eligible for benefits of OROP.
For wider coverage, following may be useful
Table 1 - page 12, for officers less Medical
Table 2 - page 15 for Medical officers
Table 21 - page 53 for family pensioners less medical
Table 22 - page 55 for medical family pensioners
OROP-1 TABLE (RCOs)
For convenience of veterans who are in receipt of the OROP (July 2015) pension the OROP-1 tables are given below as such the Pre-revised basic pension is the basic Pension in this table applicable to your QS multiplied by 2.57. The family pensioner who are getting ordinary family pension get 60% of the retiring pension.
On implementation our OROP pension wef 01 Jul 2014 the basic of OROP was multiplied by 2.57 as the 7 CPC Pension , that's what is the basic pension we have been getting since 01 Jan 2016 getting since Jan 2016. Use the 7 CPC basic as your existing basic in the TOOL above.
ACCURACY OF CALCULATIONS
The TOOL has been extensively tested for various scenarios, It has been a hard task to auto calculate first the AGE for each month and then assign the Enhancement Factor specially where the age slab changes within 45 months.
IT is an ERROR-LESS tool.
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why the ranks of Subedar, Lt and Capt are not included in the table of Press Information Bureau (PIB), Delhi which released the OROP - II pensions of all those retired till Jun 2019. Having asked me you have to have the patience to read this long reply. Unfortunately explanations on Pensions or OROP are bound to be long and bit complicated. But if you read carefully, you will understand what I am trying to explain. I hope you do. Initially PIB showed two pension revisions i.e. w.e.f Jul 2019 and again from Jul 2021. Having realised their mistake that pension revision in OROP is made only once in five years i.e. OROP - I in Jul 2014, OROP - II w.e.f. Jul 2019 and OROP - III w.e.f. Jul 2024, PIB immediately removed pension revision w.e.f. Jul 2021 in their second bulletin issued on 24 Dec 2022. Let me go back by two years. I made a table of likely OROP - II pensions and likely arrears based on the data Air Mshl Sharad Y Savur, PVSM, AVSM,(Retd), former C-in-C obtained under RTI Act from Min of Def when he came to know that PCDA (Pensions) Prayagraj made a presentation on OROP - II to Jt Secy of Min of Def (ESW) on 24 Apr 2019. The data furnished by PCDA (P) Allahabad / Prayagraj in the presentation contained average pension of all ranks less Subedar, Lt and Capt. The same three ranks are missing in the table of pensions which has now appeared in the bulletin of Press Information Bureau, Delhi. Why does certain ranks do not figure in the table of PIB? This is very difficult to answer unless you care to focus on what I am telling you now. You have to understand the concept of OROP. It is basically working out average pension (Max +Min)/2 of those who retired in calendar year 2013 and their pensions are fixed w.e.f. Jul 2014. That is the pension for each rank and for each length of service every six months. To make you understand let me take the case of Havildar. Havildars / POs of Navy / Sgts of IAF retired in calendar year 2013. Someone would have drawn highest pension because he got promoted earlier than his coursemates or batchmates due to availability of vacancies in his trade (like in EME) and someone would have got promoted to the rank of Hav very late. The one who is promoted earlier would have got more number of increments hence his basic is also high. So his pension is maximum. Opposite is the case of Hav / PO / Sgt who got promoted very late and earned least number of increments and that why his pension is minimum in 2013. The average pension (=Maximum pension + Minimum Pension/2) is thus worked out for all ranks from Sepoys to Lt Gen (HAG +) for every six months of service till 33 years. I will give one example of Havildar group Y with service of 22 years. The Average pension of Havs / POs / Sgt retired in calendar year 2013 is Rs 24,125 pm (as given in Circular 555 of PCDA (P) Allahabad / Prayagraj). Those who retired with pension higher than Average of Havildar in 2013 will not be affected i.e. they will draw their pension as higher pension can not be reduced. But those Havs /POs /Sgts whose pension is lesser than Average will draw average pension. Say if one's pension is Rs 22,125 then his pension in OROP-I is hiked to Rs 24,125 pm. This way this Havildar is benefitted by Rs 2,000. **continued
Here is the catch. The OROP - I is applicable to all those who retired till 30 Jun 2014. All those who retired from 01 Jul 2014 to 31 Dec 2015 will not get this benefit of getting average pension. They will get their pension which is 50% of last drawn emoluments. Such pensioners will not get their pension hiked to average. There are number of cases where those retired after Jul 2014 get lesser pension than those retired in OROP period i.e. till Jun 2014. When you multiply lesser pension of those retired on or after Jul 2014 with fitment factor of 2.57 for pension w.e.f. Jan 2016, their pension will be lesser than OROP - I pensioners. This is an anomaly. This anomaly will continue till the average of pension of those retired in calendar year 2018 or 2024 is higher than pension being drawn. I think you need an example to understand this difficult concept of OROP. Let us take two Havildars. One is Ram Singh retired in Jun 2014 and eligible for OROP - I and second one is Hav Krishna Reddy retired one month later in Jul 2014 and is not Eligible for OROP - I. Hav Ram Singh retired in Jun 2014 hence gets benefit of OROP. His pension. was only Rs 22,145 but average being Rs 24,145 he got financial benefit of Rs 2,000. Now take the case Hav Krishna Reddy who retired just after one month i.e. Jul 2014 and he is not eligible for OROP. His pension is only Rs 22,125 pm. Now fixing pension w.e.f. Jan 2016. Hav Ram Singh (retired in Jun 2014) and his Pension w.e.f Jan 2016 = Rs 24,125 x fitment factor of 2.57 = Rs 62,001. Hav Krishna Reddy (retired in Jul 2014 not eligible for OROP - I = pension w.e.f. Jan 2016 = 22125 x 2.57 = Rs 56,861 (for retiring one month later or retired in Dec 2015) one gets lesser pension. This will continue till Jun 2019 when OROP - II is due. If even in OROP - II if the average of Pension of Havildar Y is say Rs 56,000, then Havildars retired in the period Jul 2014 to Dec 2015 will not any benefit in OROP - II. Their pension being higher than Average in OROP- II will continue to get Rs 56,861 only. This is exactly what happened in OROP - II w.e.f. Jul 2019. The three ranks of Subedars / MCPO/ WO, Lt and Capts will not get any benefit in OROP - II. They have to wait till 8th CPC in Jan 2026 and hope the CPC recommends higher pension to them. TSEWA projected this anomaly to justice L Narasimha Reddy, Chairman of OMJC. But his report is lying in Govt of India since 26 Oct 2016 un-actioned. AFT Kochi directed Ministry of Def to take decision one way or the other on the report of Justice L Narasimha Reddy within four months. I hope my analysis is wrong and these three ranks of Subedars, Lts and Capts also get higher pension in OROP - II w.e.f. Jul 2019. . This write up is from Brig CS Vidyasagar (Retd)
IS THIS WHAT IS APPLICABLE IN THE CASE OF OFFICERS WHO RETIRED AFTER 21 YRS OF COMMISSIONED SERVICE BEFORE 7TH PAY COMMISION.DETAILS OF AFFECTED IS AS FOLLOWS. DATE OF COMMISSION 25 DEC 1965 DATE OF RETIREMENT 05 NOV 1986. DATE OF BIRTH 23 AUG 1942. PENSION ON RETIREMENT 2085 /= PENSION AS ON 24/09/2012 18205/= PENSION AS PER OROP 1 AS ON 01 JUL 2014 22830/= 7TH CPC PENSION 58674/=
AS PER TABLES OF OROP 2 PENSION GRANTED 51700/=--???? COMMENTS OFFERED ON BLOC WILL BE APPRECITED THANKS
I am an emergency commissioned officer having served in ranks in the CORPS OF SIGNALS for 6 years 6 months and in the REGIMENT OF ARTILLERY FOR 6 YEARS total qualifying service of 12 years 6 months I was released and getting pension in the rank of CAPT. Now I am 85 years old.I am shocked to know that I will not be get ting benefit of OROP 2 .Though I got OROP 1
PCDA is making us fools by making such a cumbersome table. What is meaning of pension to people who have length of service from 0.5 to 14.5 years for JCOs/OR and upto 19.5 yrs for Offers. And Subedars are only getting higher pension and all others from Sep to Gen are starving with lesser pension till date. Wonderful calculations. Earlier also this happened when one time increase was given in 2014 or so. Subedars were left out and all others got increase. That was a test dose. Repeating the same. Nobody will object that only one rank cannot make any impact. How many Captains and Lts are there who are getting service pension? Only a meagre number of very old or there family drawing family pension.
There is so much information of how to calculate our OROP arrears ,tools etc, but I don't see any thing that I can click on and download my details to know my arrears.June 30th has long gone & I am 79.7yrs old and I have not yet got my arrears
READERS ! KINDLY BEGIN YOUR REMARKS, COMMENTS OR QRYs ON THIS WEB PAGE WITH YOUR RANK+NAME AND EMAIL ID TO ENABLE US TO PUBLISH AND REPLY DIRECTLY AND PRIVATELY TO YOU ON YOUR EMAIL. WE REGRET OUR INABILITY OTHERWISE. BRIG NARINDER DHAND, FOUNDER & CONVENER , BIGGER FAMILY $ SIGNALS PARIVAAR, WEB PORTAL FOR MILITARY VETERANS,
FOR INFO - THE CONCEPT
ReplyDeletewhy the ranks of Subedar, Lt and Capt are not included in the table of Press Information Bureau (PIB), Delhi which released the OROP - II pensions of all those retired till Jun 2019.
Having asked me you have to have the patience to read this long reply.
Unfortunately explanations on Pensions or OROP are bound to be long and bit complicated. But if you read carefully, you will understand what I am trying to explain.
I hope you do.
Initially PIB showed two pension revisions i.e. w.e.f Jul 2019 and again from Jul 2021. Having realised their mistake that pension revision in OROP is made only once in five years i.e. OROP - I in Jul 2014, OROP - II w.e.f. Jul 2019 and OROP - III w.e.f. Jul 2024, PIB immediately removed pension revision w.e.f. Jul 2021 in their second bulletin issued on 24 Dec 2022.
Let me go back by two years.
I made a table of likely OROP - II pensions and likely arrears based on the data Air Mshl Sharad Y Savur, PVSM, AVSM,(Retd), former C-in-C obtained under RTI Act from Min of Def when he came to know that PCDA (Pensions) Prayagraj made a presentation on OROP - II to Jt Secy of Min of Def (ESW) on 24 Apr 2019.
The data furnished by PCDA (P) Allahabad / Prayagraj in the presentation contained average pension of all ranks less Subedar, Lt and Capt.
The same three ranks are missing in the table of pensions which has now appeared in the bulletin of Press Information Bureau, Delhi.
Why does certain ranks do not figure in the table of PIB?
This is very difficult to answer unless you care to focus on what I am telling you now.
You have to understand the concept of OROP. It is basically working out average pension (Max +Min)/2 of those who retired in calendar year 2013 and their pensions are fixed w.e.f. Jul 2014. That is the pension for each rank and for each length of service every six months. To make you understand let me take the case of Havildar. Havildars / POs of Navy / Sgts of IAF retired in calendar year 2013. Someone would have drawn highest pension because he got promoted earlier than his coursemates or batchmates due to availability of vacancies in his trade (like in EME) and someone would have got promoted to the rank of Hav very late. The one who is promoted earlier would have got more number of increments hence his basic is also high. So his pension is maximum. Opposite is the case of Hav / PO / Sgt who got promoted very late and earned least number of increments and that why his pension is minimum in 2013. The average pension (=Maximum pension + Minimum Pension/2) is thus worked out for all ranks from Sepoys to Lt Gen (HAG +) for every six months of service till 33 years.
I will give one example of Havildar group Y with service of 22 years. The Average pension of Havs / POs / Sgt retired in calendar year 2013 is Rs 24,125 pm (as given in Circular 555 of PCDA (P) Allahabad / Prayagraj).
Those who retired with pension higher than Average of Havildar in 2013 will not be affected i.e. they will draw their pension as higher pension can not be reduced. But those Havs /POs /Sgts whose pension is lesser than Average will draw average pension. Say if one's pension is Rs 22,125 then his pension in OROP-I is hiked to Rs 24,125 pm. This way this Havildar is benefitted by Rs 2,000. **continued
CONTINUED FROM ABOVE.....
ReplyDeleteHere is the catch. The OROP - I is applicable to all those who retired till 30 Jun 2014. All those who retired from 01 Jul 2014 to 31 Dec 2015 will not get this benefit of getting average pension. They will get their pension which is 50% of last drawn emoluments. Such pensioners will not get their pension hiked to average.
There are number of cases where those retired after Jul 2014 get lesser pension than those retired in OROP period i.e. till Jun 2014.
When you multiply lesser pension of those retired on or after Jul 2014 with fitment factor of 2.57 for pension w.e.f. Jan 2016, their pension will be lesser than OROP - I pensioners. This is an anomaly. This anomaly will continue till the average of pension of those retired in calendar year 2018 or 2024 is higher than pension being drawn.
I think you need an example to understand this difficult concept of OROP.
Let us take two Havildars. One is Ram Singh retired in Jun 2014 and eligible for OROP - I and second one is Hav Krishna Reddy retired one month later in Jul 2014 and is not Eligible for OROP - I.
Hav Ram Singh retired in Jun 2014 hence gets benefit of OROP. His pension. was only Rs 22,145 but average being Rs 24,145 he got financial benefit of Rs 2,000.
Now take the case Hav Krishna Reddy who retired just after one month i.e. Jul 2014 and he is not eligible for OROP. His pension is only Rs 22,125 pm.
Now fixing pension w.e.f. Jan 2016.
Hav Ram Singh (retired in Jun 2014) and his Pension w.e.f Jan 2016 = Rs 24,125 x fitment factor of 2.57 = Rs 62,001.
Hav Krishna Reddy (retired in Jul 2014 not eligible for OROP - I = pension w.e.f. Jan 2016 = 22125 x 2.57 = Rs 56,861 (for retiring one month later or retired in Dec 2015) one gets lesser pension. This will continue till Jun 2019 when OROP - II is due.
If even in OROP - II if the average of Pension of Havildar Y is say Rs 56,000, then Havildars retired in the period Jul 2014 to Dec 2015 will not any benefit in OROP - II. Their pension being higher than Average in OROP- II will continue to get Rs 56,861 only.
This is exactly what happened in OROP - II w.e.f. Jul 2019.
The three ranks of Subedars / MCPO/ WO, Lt and Capts will not get any benefit in OROP - II. They have to wait till 8th CPC in Jan 2026 and hope the CPC recommends higher pension to them.
TSEWA projected this anomaly to justice L Narasimha Reddy, Chairman of OMJC. But his report is lying in Govt of India since 26 Oct 2016 un-actioned. AFT Kochi directed Ministry of Def to take decision one way or the other on the report of Justice L Narasimha Reddy within four months.
I hope my analysis is wrong and these three ranks of Subedars, Lts and Capts also get higher pension in OROP - II w.e.f. Jul 2019. . This write up is from Brig CS Vidyasagar (Retd)
IS THIS WHAT IS APPLICABLE IN THE CASE OF OFFICERS WHO RETIRED AFTER 21 YRS OF COMMISSIONED SERVICE BEFORE 7TH PAY COMMISION.DETAILS OF AFFECTED IS AS FOLLOWS. DATE OF COMMISSION 25 DEC 1965
ReplyDeleteDATE OF RETIREMENT 05 NOV 1986. DATE OF BIRTH 23 AUG 1942.
PENSION ON RETIREMENT 2085 /=
PENSION AS ON 24/09/2012 18205/=
PENSION AS PER OROP 1
AS ON 01 JUL 2014 22830/=
7TH CPC PENSION 58674/=
AS PER TABLES OF OROP 2
PENSION GRANTED 51700/=--????
COMMENTS OFFERED ON BLOC WILL BE APPRECITED THANKS
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteYou have missed mentioning your rank, please look up the tables once again against your rank for 21 Yrs of QS
DeleteI am an emergency commissioned officer having served in ranks in the CORPS OF SIGNALS for 6 years 6 months and in the REGIMENT OF ARTILLERY FOR 6 YEARS total qualifying service of 12 years 6 months I was released and getting pension in the rank of CAPT. Now I am 85 years old.I am shocked to know that I will not be get ting benefit of OROP 2 .Though I got OROP 1
ReplyDeleteSir from your analysis that hony.capt don't have any benefits from this decision !
ReplyDeletePCDA is making us fools by making such a cumbersome table. What is meaning of pension to people who have length of service from 0.5 to 14.5 years for JCOs/OR and upto 19.5 yrs for Offers. And Subedars are only getting higher pension and all others from Sep to Gen are starving with lesser pension till date. Wonderful calculations. Earlier also this happened when one time increase was given in 2014 or so. Subedars were left out and all others got increase. That was a test dose. Repeating the same. Nobody will object that only one rank cannot make any impact. How many Captains and Lts are there who are getting service pension? Only a meagre number of very old or there family drawing family pension.
ReplyDeleteIn spite of filling up all the green columns correctly It is not diplaying the final pension. Pse help me
ReplyDeletePlease try again using lap top with Windows and MS Office
ReplyDeleteThere is so much information of how to calculate our OROP arrears ,tools etc, but I don't see any thing that I can click on and download my details to know my arrears.June 30th has long gone & I am 79.7yrs old and I have not yet got my arrears
ReplyDelete